I think the discussion of the merits of the various queen suppliers is fine, however, why not be more inclusive and a little more scientific and reliable? There are a number of suscribers to the Bee-l who have excellent investigative skills (I am not one of them) and who might be willing to put together a survey/research type program that could give us a tremendous amount of reliable information. I feel there is a need to catagorize queens by race, etc., beekeepers by size, geographic local, major activity, honey, pollinization, etc., and queens by a inclusive list of characteristics. With the suggestions of bee-l members a comprehensive questionairre could be developed and administered by e/mail. One/some of our members could certainly give the collected data the analysis that would answer, reliably, the many questions this might generate. It might also be worth considering to giving breeders the option of being included in the study. An activity of this type certainly does not preclude our open discussion of breeders on a "seat of the pants, shoot from the hip" fashion. These are my thoughts, how about some reaction (hopefully not too many flames). Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Western Brookline, MO 65619 (near Springfield and Bass Pro Shop) As our Internet provider will be down from July 17-21, I will be off-line and will return on July 22 with a new address ([log in to unmask]).