Well, wintering looks to have been good here -- loss is running 10.5% -- our best ever, in spite of our having received a positive on an acarine test taken on the bees from our honey house window last fall, and no treatment having been ever used here. However, we did have _one yard_ where we lost 15 out of 24 hives. This particular yard produced very well last year and plugged up badly a couple of times, including once in September when they had only one super (above the double broods and excluder) during a very intense late flow. The boys report that the upper broods were still plugged on the dead hives and there is no dead cluster. The rest of the yard seems pretty normal. Now I realise that whenever these symptoms appear, everyone says 'mites' as a reflex, but we have no reason to suspect varroa (we'll be checking tho') What I'm wondering is if the queens could have been shut down enough to prevent raising winter bees and that the colonies might have died of old age. I have never seen it before. What I am wondering is specifically this: A few years back, The Peace was hit with a late flow in September and it plugged the hives right out, because no one had thought to have any supers on at that late date. A subsequent poor wintering was blamed on that fact (lack of winter bees), but I had personally sort of pooh-poohed the idea because September is a little late for much brood rearing in Alberta . On the other hand, I *have* always claimed that even good hives can be too heavy for good wintering and that there is an ideal weight range. I have had trouble recruiting believers to that latter position however -- with most commercials saying "Give 'em all they'll take". So now I'm wondering. Assuming that this isn't a mite thing, what say ye all? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask] Virtual Art Gallery: http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka __________________Why not drop by?____________________