> > > If you read what I write and come to a different conclusion than someone > else, it doesn't matter to me. I am not trying to persuade anyone, not > having any sort of an agenda other than to *look more closely* at certain > topics, such as bee breeding. > I'll fully admit that when I read some of your posts, it appears as if you do have an agenda. The vast majority of your postings are summarizations of other individual's works that are used to inform and generate discussion. But occasionally a post comes up that appears significantly more "directive" than others. For example, your "strike one", "strike two" and "strike three" against "queen breeders" a few weeks ago. I think it's hard to read those postings and NOT believe you have an agenda against queen breeders, or that you are attempting to persuade others that their breeding techniques aren't accurate or supportive. It may be my interpretation though. > > Sue Colby and Tarpys point on why bees are behind is right on target, I > myself have made that point here several times in the last years. Lack of > standards amongst beekeepers is a major issue. The only ones doing > unbiased test are then shot down by the losers. WE would benefit from a > standards group that was sharp enough to do season to season head to head > test like the other AG industries. > I'm not in the breeding business, but I would imagine it is significantly easier to create one set of standards for dairy cows, laying chickens, or many other agricultural animals for the entire agricultural industry than it would be for the bee industry (on the whole). More milk = a better dairy cow. Faster growth rate & more eggs = a better egg hen. But what makes a better honey bee? Some select for gentleness, while others select against it (or at least believe the nasty ones are more productive). Some select for resistance to disease, while others could care less. A good bee for pollination isn't necessarily a good bee for honey production, and neither are necessarily good bees for a package or nuc operation. Then there's early spring build up, propolis use, colony size, "overwintering ability" (as if you can call that one trait alone), and "dearth" shutdown (if any), just to name a few. Assuming you can get the "industry" to agree on the whole on even a few individual lines of what is best, geographic location, and even micro climates, throws that selection criteria right out the window. What's a good honey producing bee for me in the Piedmont region of NC won't help the coastal region or the mountain region at all, and they're each about 2 hours away from me. Imagine going 500, or a few thousand miles further away. Beyond that, no one is really teaching hobby, small, or sideline beekeepers much about what to select for in their breeding operations. I've heard it over and over again at local and regional bee meetings "breed from your best colonies." But if you ask indepth questions (how to select for drone colonies to supplement the genetics in your mother/grafting colonies, or the order on what to select for such as honey production first then gentleness then resistance, or resistance then honey production then gentleness, or just a grab bag of "this one's good enough") and the conversations quickly break down. Further guidance is nearly never given. To the guy with 5 or even 50 colonies, it would be incredibly easy for him, in the short term, to create inbreeding. Or quickly select for an undesirable bee. But even if he beat the odds, it takes constant selection and vigilance to maintain that criteria, as those 5 colonies are impacting the feral genetics very little, especially when the guy 2 miles away is importing queens from other locations or is selecting for entirely different traits than you are. There is so much more at play with honey bee breeding than there is with cow breeding. It's almost like comparing apples to pomegranates. *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html