> > >No offense intended to those who have bees that overwinter in milder > climates. No offense taken Christina : ) As reported by Fell, et al in 1977, in Ithaca, New York, which some would consider to be northeastern U.S., "There were peak swarming periods during the first two weeks in June and during the last week in August and the first week in September." A colony with an aging queen about to be superseded in September, would have little to lose, and everything to gain (genetically) if instead of balling the old queen, pushed her out of the hive with a small group of protective workers. At that time of season, the colony would have plenty of sealed brood to replace those workers (which according to Lloyd Harris' and Heather Mattila's data wouldn't have formed part of the winter cluster anyway. So I don't see any evidence to support your claim that the issuing colony would die as a result of issuing a small (or even large) swarm at that time of season. Indeed, it would go into the winter with a newly-mated queen, which plenty of research shows typically results in a better colony the next spring. Meanwhile, the old queen and the usurpation swarm would look for a colony to invade. Again, if you haven't already done so, may I suggest that you read Wyatt Mangum's articles on the subject. This would be a kamikaze mission with low probability of success; but if it succeeds that queen's genetics would have been passed on to another colony without the need to establish and put on winter stores. If you have a more parsimonious and biologically plausible explanation as to the observed spike in swarming in autumn, I'd be very interested in hearing it! -- Randy Oliver Grass Valley, CA www.ScientificBeekeeping.com *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html