> Itialians will do poorer in cold, carniolas will have smaller brood. Black bees and Russians do better in cold climates. >First off, this isn't true. In the 1880s Italian bees were imported to the US and Canada and they were just as capable of wintering as the black bees. Further, you can't use Italians and Russians in the same sense. The Italian bee is a geographic race (Ligustica) where the Russians are an amalgam of different types. < Yes it is true.... Thousands of beekeepers have proven it time and time again. Italian large populations and huge need for surplus honey makes it tough to winter them successfully in the far north, hence the practice of killing off bees, and repopulating with packages, or indoor storage. Yes technically some will survive, and in time morph into more frugal bees. (locally adapted) I finished reading the report you linked, and what supporting info I could find. Even the report itself noted "this may seem logical to some scientist, but has never been proven on a large scale" You can parse the genotypes all you like, but beekeepers the world over know that some species work better in different locations. Certain traits are more desirable in some areas. If you want large honey crops, pick Italians, winter hardy, then Russians or Carniola's as a breed may be a better choice. Any beekeeper knows there are genetic differences. Of course some bees will survive anywhere, that was my beginning point. But I also know if I have a hive of Italians, the cupboard had better be dang full for them to make it. Just as you pointed out, your locals (black Germans I recall) do good in a cold dreary climate. The cited report does nothing but support what should be obvious. The slight if you will is that it attempts to use the term local populations in a slightly different light than "locally adapted" No differentiation from wild or domestic, just actually dwelling on bees the were genotyped. Which in doing so, actually leaves "local adapted" out of it, and deals with long established genetic differences. In this case I don't for a second think it is intentionally using the word local to deceive, but if one is not careful in reading you could twist it around. Last year there was a lady in the east who got a SARE grant to study a locals vs packages. Looking in SARE, I realized it would be biased. Then in conversation with said person, I learned that it was a red herring all the way. Published info showed that packages did worse. Funny part is how bad the research was. Package started in june (same start as the nuc) with no drawn comb. And yet still got more honey from the package. Sample size? 2 hives...... that one was fraudulent, from the start. But hey she got a grant to get here started! (I think we have gone full circle now) I also have not been able to find any supporting info yet, such as results or methodology on that report, any one with a link would be greatly appreciated. Charles *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html