Try putting the baby prone and doing another digital suck exam and see if the tongue comes forward. Chele Marmet used to call this the 'charm hold'. If that works, work on breastfeeding in positions where baby is face down. Babies with muscle tightness in the neck (torticollis and similar conditions) may retract the tongue in supine and sitting, but bring it forward in prone. I *suspect* that torticollis may make the floor of the mouth tighter, restricting tongue function. In kids with both torticollis and tongue-tie, treating only the tongue-tie is proving insufficient. The other possibility here is a completely submucosal restriction. If tongue mobility does not improve with the baby in prone, suspect that and look for doctors who understand 'posterior' tongue ties. Catherine Watson Genna BS, IBCLC NYC www.cwgenna.com *********************************************** Archives: http://community.lsoft.com/archives/LACTNET.html To reach list owners: [log in to unmask] Mail all list management commands to: [log in to unmask] COMMANDS: 1. To temporarily stop your subscription write in the body of an email: set lactnet nomail 2. To start it again: set lactnet mail 3. To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet 4. To get a comprehensive list of rules and directions: get lactnet welcome