This may be a "how many angels..." subject. Looking through some of the discussion of neonics, the term "sub-lethal" dose appears.It is generally used to say that the dose is very small but still has some effect on the bee or larva. If you look at the actual meaning of sub-lethal, it is anything below LD100. Some like to call it anything below LD50 but that is incorrect and generally not a good use of the term. It would be nice if those who conduct such studies or make such statements actually note the found LD, for example LD10 or such.Then we would know that some bees do die. However, in many of the studies, no bees die, but there is an "effect". When you look at all the stuff found in the two studies it sort of makes looking at exceptionally low doses of pesticides pale compared to the much higher doses found. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html