"How does honey production compare between the Langstroth hive and the Russian long or chest style hive? I recently worked a development project in Tajikistan, where beekeepers were using the chest hive exclusively. In some Eastern European countries there seems to be a gradual transition from the chest hive to the Langstroth hive, while some former soviet republics in central Asia continue to use the chest hive almost exclusively. My guess is that honey production is a little higher in the Langstroth hive and winter losses lower due to better control of heat and humidity in the Langstroth hive, but I'm only guessing. Has anyone seen any data or anecdotal evidence comparing these two types of hives? I can contribute a little. I developed a Long DEEP hive for own use 37 years ago and have worked 6 to 20 ever since. The Dartington hive was derived from screwing two deep brood boxes (12ins deep) back to back so that the second brood box needed for splitting for swarm control was always available to every hive - then I chopped out the central wall and introduced a movable dummy frame to back the nest as it expanded plus a movable division board to separate two colonies in the same hive when needed. This ended up something like a Russian chest hive. I need only one level of supers to equal the overall volume of a vertical hive with 3 layers of super frames. Thinking that management of such a deep long box must already have been worked out I searched hard but came up with only two Russian books translated to English. They suggested that traditional chest hives were part of mixed farming where bees were kept for pollination and local honey but specialist bee farmers were switching to Langstroths for the portability needed to produce honey from migratory beekeeping. Which hive enables bees to store more surplus depends partly on bee biology but mostly on several factors related to the culture of beekeeping - so the effects of the hive type are not easily compared: Bee biology 1. Development of a large nest/foraging force - a colony needs only 9 deep frames to hold a colony and 40lbs of stores in winter in UK - a long box allows 3 frames to be added in front and behind the winter nest for spring expansion from 9 to 15 frames - 15 frames seems a natural depth of nest for most colonies with an entrance at one end (not central) and they do not draw foundation further back - but if drawn combs are moved back and foundation moved forward, colonies continue to work the occupied frames. Any vertical hive design restricts the depth of the nest - only a long-deep or chest hive allows unrestricted expansion. Culture of beekeeping 2. With vertical hives, strong colonies are either split to two smaller units in separate boxes - or the beekeeping takes the risk of losing a swarm and loses swarms from at least some hives. Two small lots produce less than one big one - and losing a swarm reduces the honey crop so either way, apiary average is reduced. With a long deep hive, the colony is easily split TEMPORARILY by putting in the vertical divider (and opening the rear entrance) and then very easily reunited before the main honey flow by removing the board after a new queen has been raised in the queenless half. This keeps the whole colony together for the main flow while still renewing the queen annually (in theory, queen raising does not always work in practice of course). 3. In areas with a strong spring flow, colonies can be re-spit in autumn and wintered as two nests either side of the division board. Then the two lots can be combined before the spring flow. 4. Keeping some nucs as well as full colonies has many advantages- but keeping nucs in separate small boxes is unnatural and can take up time and skill. Keeping a 6-frame nuc behind a 15 frame colony is easier and more flexible - remove the nuc queen and combine the nuc to the colony in an instant without loss of a single flying bee. 5. In bad periods, bees need to be fed to keep the brood nest working- but the feed needs to be placed below the supers or sugar will spoil the crop. Removing all the supers is a job in vertical hives - long deeps need removal of only one super to access the unused space in the brood box to place a large tub on the hive floor - so beekeepers are more likely to help bees with such emergency feeds. 6. If it is felt that bees winter better in the confined space of a vertical hive, equal confinement can be achieved with a long-deep hive by wintering with a division board (I have never bothered - but will try anything once!). I could go on - but the question concerned Asiatic chest hives and I do not know how they are generally managed. The Russian books do emphasise early division of a colony to two parts within a long hive to produce more brood in two nests than in one undivided nest, with recombination before the main flow - so that seems part of accepted practice. Anecdotally, a user of my design of hive averaged 164 lbs last year using Buckfast queens in his 5 hives - compared with the UK national average of 55lbs where (90+% of hives are vertical - and swarming seems pretty common). But deep long hives are not convenient for migratory beeping so use is limited to permanent apiaries - and yields are limited by the extent of local forage. . . *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. 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