?> There are still isolated pockets of the descendants of Amm. I personally do not know of any bees with a large amount of AMM genetics. i am in my 51 st. year involved with beekeeping I can clearly remember working AMM. In fact my first hives were a large part AMM. Few have ever asked what it was like to work the bee. I quickly converted to Italians. In 1979 I bought the hives of a deceased beekeeper named Bruce Sunderland from his widow( died in his bee yard) and the beekeeper had some fairly pure AMM. I kept a couple of AMM hives around for a few years but eventually the Italians replaced the AMM. >Lots of times people lament the wisdom of using the Italian bee, preferring >the Carniolan or some other mixed lineage. However, nobody ever talks about >how good the old Amm were. Slang for Amm was "German bee" or "German blacks" . Not sure why England was never talked about. The bees were very dark and had many undiserable traits in my opinion. The bees were quick to sting . I wore tennis shoes back then working bees and the bees were always trying to sting around the feet. Some bees always pop the veil when upset but the blacks seemed to work low. The bees wintered good and used less stores but were late in spring to expand the nest. *I never purposely replaced a black queen. * The bees were plenty workable. >People like Sue Cobey have lobbied to get access to European bees to >improve the stock here, but it is Carniolan and Caucasian stock they seek; >nobody wants Amm for their special qualities. I think the big reason goes back to the point made by Peter Edwards that Brother Adam said so many bad things about AMM ( and all serious beekeepers have read his writtings) that most felt Amm should be passed over.I have always been impressed with brother Adam and his beekeeping but have to agree with Peter Edwards that Brother Adam (through his writtings) put AMm in a class perhaps the bee did not deserve. >To an outsider looking at the UK, France, or Spain for example, it seems a >matter of preferring the native bees because "they're our bees" -- like 'em >or not. I am sure the above factors in but in many ways Amm is suited for the weather of Europe. I was a member of the Irish beekeeping list many years ago and learned quickly many Europe beekeepers felt Brother Adam was wrong about AMM. Those beekeepers were quick to point out the faults of my beloved Italian bee. The Irish beekeepers were interested in U.S. beekeeping and overlooked my fondness for the Italian bee. The most common complaint most have against the bee ( not commercial beekeepers) is their grumpy nature. I remember one beautiful summer day with a strong clover flow on. I pulled into a yard with a single AMM hive.( among 20 Italians). Stepped out of the truck to have a single black bee light on my face and place a stinger. I actually laughed which shocked my helper and I said: " I would have bet money the bee which would sting for no reason would be from the black German bee hive". While on the subject of bee races: I do not really care for the Caucasians ( and I have had many of those hives) nor the Carniolans ( or NWC) but still have plenty of those around ( due to trouble getting Italian queens and all the queens available were carniolans) The race of bee is simply a matter of personal preference and *all* races are more alike than not alike. The best Italian queens I have ever used came from breeders which were selected from the best hives from the year before. Some of the worst queens have came from breeders which use too many selection criteria. choosing from the best queens from the year before with the traits you seek seems to always work. choosing based on perfect bee parts and a half dozen other things can give you offspring with many good traits but perhaps not "prolific" or another of the important traits many commercial beekeepers feel they need. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri U.S. *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at: http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm