Those kinds of losses usually are related to several problems in those hives. Most call those type losses CCD. I do not. Bob, since you know what CCD is,how about helping out the research people and tell them to quit looking for the smoking gun. I can tell you it is real and not always related to ppb(piss poor beekeeping) For a scientific thinking guy I would think you would at least give some us a benefit of doubt about being able to keep bees ,and mites. There is alot more than just problems which you imply are related to lack of beekeeper effort and ppb,yes I will admit there is some slackers and loss from that but not all of it. *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html Access BEE-L directly at: http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A0=BEE-L