In a message dated 16/08/2009 13:05:44 GMT Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: <<The people on the hygienic side will say the bees are opening the cells and pulling varroa. If so then why the shotgun pattern? It is true apis cerana leaves a hole in its drone brood for this reason. I see very little of this in apis mellifera ( some for sure) but a bunch of pulling late stage pupae. researchers say the pupae is ate by the bees but not what I have observed. I see bees starving pulling late stage pupae and eating but in a normal hive it seems the pupae is simply removed from the hive. The cell is tied up for days. Royal jelly and nurse bee labor is wasted. The above is my opinion . Let the roar begin! bob>> Shotgun brood is correct; hygienic behaviour has to reduce the number of bees in the colony somewhat. Innumerable pupae are removed over a season, yet mite numbers remain significant, increasing slowly, at least in my hives. As far as I can see, hygeinic behaviour prevents mites from breeding, without harming them. How long can such a mite survive, and remain capable of breeding? I have occasionally seen pupae thrown out of the hives, but far more often I see them half-eaten, still in the cells. I use bottoms I make myself, with a reduced entrance half an inch or so above the mesh. This may be a mistake, as dead bees tend to build up rather, mainly in winter. Eventually they're removed, as the hive builds up strength. Since I don't take the boxes off the bottoms very much this time of year, it's quite possible that quantities of pupae may be left in the hives without my knowledge. Either way, the bits usually end up on the trays I have underneath the mesh. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html