Hello All, Maybe Stan will comment. Beekeeping is a gamble. Weather is inpredictable. You make choices and at times the choices do not work out. I wish Stan the best! In my situation we always have the option of loading hives and heading south to rebuild. When we see the hives are not strong enough to winter we depopulate the "Dinks" and take the strong hives south. Rebuild in an area you can work bees in year around. Do a little fishing and work on your tan while waiting for the hives to turn around. I have heard horror stories of beekeepers which tried to winter in the north close to the Canada border last winter. One of the hardest and coldest Dakota winters I have been told. Going south one never regrets. Staying north is always a gamble. Its not the cold per say but its hard to prepare properly a huge nember of hives before the onset of winter. One issue: Trying to determine exactly how many of the bees in a hive are "winter" bees. Some queens shut down laying when the flow stops and do not produce the correct number ( Bob's opinion) of winter bees. The beekeeper checks the hive and the hive is full of bees so assumes all is well. Later in November the hive is a "dink" as not enough winter bees to winter properly. I have fought the issue ever since I relocated from Florida beekeeping to the Midwest. Any tips from other northern beekeepers and finding those hives short on winter bees ( but full of old bees) in October? beekeepers have added winter bee brood to help hives which did not produce enough on their own which does work. For those on the list which might not understand what Stan is saying I believe his splits lacked the strength to store the correct amount of feed to overwinter *and* raise enough winter bees before winter set in. Correct me if I am not understanding what you said Stan? bob *********************************************** The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html