I very much appreciate all the constructive input contributed by all on this thread, as this has been an unresolved question for well over a decade Specifically, the problem has been deciding what constitutes personal attacks, and what is legitimate examination of issues and determining the credentials, experience and evidence of a writer making claims, and where the line should be drawn, or if there even should be an attempt to moderate. Speaking for myself, there should be no place on the list for personal attacks in any of the many subtle or overt forms, but the legitimate examination of issues and determining the credentials, experience and evidence of a writer is essential to understanding issues and central to the function of this list as a venue for "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" . 'Balanced' and 'Civil' should be in there, too, but that makes for too long a description. All but a few agree that abuse should be verboten, but the problem is deciding where the line is drawn, and by whom. There are cultural differences and also degrees of personal sensitivity. Some, particularly the well credentialed expect and welcome any examination of their background and experience, and some others are uncomfortable if anyone so much as glances their way. Like beauty and humour, to some extent the determination of what is an attack or abuse is in the eye of the beholder. Some consider almost any scrutiny of their ideas or background -- or those of others -- to be rude and abusive. Others revel in some rough and tumble and find things dull if they cannot get something going from time to time. When these differing types get together on one list, there is bound to be squabbles about what's fair or foul, and major headaches for the moderators. I like to think that, on BEE-L, since it is a university-based list with some pretenses to being based on science, any honest, relevant and politely worded request for, and polite examination of credentials and/or documentation is entirely to be expected and welcomed. That is what makes this list special and respected, and also what makes this list very annoying to a few. That simply cannot be helped if the mandate is to be respected. I also very much appreciate the high quality discussion ongoing between experienced beekeepers from various places around the world at present. It is particularly remarkable that, even though there are huge differences in philosophy, purpose and experience, and disagreement on a number of topics, that the discussion is level, respectful, informative and constructive. Words are deliberately neutral, and the comments reflect some considerable thought, not just a reaction. Moreover, the posts are well-edited, quotes are clearly set out as such and pared to the minimum necessary, and opinions are shared and respected for what they are: opinions. This is BEE-L at its best. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/hygienic.htm --- We need not to be let alone. We need to be really bothered once in a while. How long is it since you were really bothered? About something important, about something real? -- Ray Bradbury (1920 - ), Fahrenheit 451, 1953 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************