Dee, I come from a similar background as Ed. I have hand loaded semi's of hives of bees. Moved bees with two wheelers etc. I have lived in farmhouses without running water, electricity and only heated by a fireplace in winter. I do not want to go back to those days on the farm nor the hand loading of beehives. I give advice to new commercial beeks all the time. In today's world the equipment needs to come along with the hives. Hive numbers are only part of the situation. The old ways which you advocate were fine years ago but are not sustainable in my world. Modern commercial beekeeping using help and paying a decent wage ( you will not get the best help unless you pay a decent wage as help will always be looking for a better job and can and will be stolen away by your fellow beeks which are willing to pay your help a better wage). Today beeks need fast ways of working bees. Moving hives is the easiest job we do. One person can move a truck load by their self using a forklift and pallets. A truck full of empty supers can be loaded in minutes. Full supers are simply lifted from the hive stack a couple feet to a waiting special honey house pallet. In my operation the next time the box is lifted the box is empty. I have friends which extract 40 drums of honey a day. You know I respect you Dee and we talk off list many times. I admire what you do and your methods but doing things the way you do would effect my bottom line and would make it hard for me to hire help. The help whines enough using modern methods. Many people think because we use swingers and trucks there is not heavy lifting involved. Even with today's modern methods there is plenty of heavy lifting. I have had two hernia operations and a rotator cuff surgery over the last six years. I just returned from 12 days on the road or I would have tried to come to Nebraska to hear your talk. However only if you would promise not to embarrass me like you did our mutual friend H.B. ( private joke between Dee & myself). You will always be a commercial beekeeper in my book! bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************