Hello Peter & All, I did not mean to say you knew little of commercial beekeeping but rather the general population and for the most part hobby beekeepers. After all the USDA-ARS recent information said there are less than 1000 commercial beeks in the U.S. with a population of 300 million people. Many of the 1000 are simply box movers for the bosses. > For example, a lot of people think that beekeepers are the source of the problem with their various practices. If that isn't true, best say it isn't so, instead of cloaking yourself in secrecy. I have said so many times but few listen. This list used to constantly bash commercial migratory beeks until I came on. I believe now many are beginning to at least understand those beekeepers position. In your last post I heard the same old tired arguments that everything we do is wrong and there is a better way. As I said in the last post. Raising queens in summer and over wintering as nucs and wintering in New York is fine for sideline and others but is not a sound business practice for the large beeks doing pollination or wanting to increase numbers by say four. Yes take a thousand hives and turn into 4000 in a months time. Raising your own queens. Done before the wraps are taken off in New York. By the time Kurt and others are taking the first looks at their hives many commercial migratory beeks have already done almonds, made splits and the bees are in other pollinations. I started working helping migratory beeks in Florida in the summer at age thirteen. The first ran around 500 hives and had a Payne loader ( pallets were not in use at the time ) . The next couple did all movement by hand. One sent around 8000 hives into Minnesota fireweed. Semis were loaded by hand. 90F. weather with unbearable humidity and all hives had open entrances. 25-50 stings a day was common. My mother made me several sweat bands as one was not enough. Most newbees quit at lunch break. However if you could take the rough part you enjoyed the making splits and other jobs which involved less stings. Although I am an avid reader of bee books etc. I have worked alongside some of the outstanding beeks of my lifetime. I have learned things about bees which is not in print. Some of those beeks if they are not working bees they are asleep and not wanting to be disturbed. We worked till the work was done without regard to the number of hours. Even if you might not get off from moving bees at night at 2 am you were expected to be ready to go at shift start the next morning. In Agriculture you do not have to pay overtime so if you want to make extra money you simply put in the hours. In the busy season many outfits work 7 days a week. These days I do not work Sundays unless the job is pumping honey for the girls to bottle next day or a little job. However I have worked 7 days for weeks at a time when behind on bee work. I do think of really retiring ( officially retired in 1998 or at least we had a cake and celebrated my retirement) but I go lay down on the couch for an hour and the mood passes. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************