> 1. who is keeping productive bees that were > bred by any of the researchers that have been > mentioned, that are not using any treatments? Gosh, Dean - Dee just said: "over 2100 members and growing", http://tinyurl.com/6fukbo But you have to ask us over here on Bee-L for names of people not using any treatments with productive bees? Why can't you give us a list of at least a thousand happy beekeepers who meet your criteria? Most beekeepers would not willingly don the hair-shirt of the dogma of "no treatments", as they would end up with the same sort of massive losses to things like Nosema ceranae that Dee Lusby had. Beekeeping isn't a religion with dogma to most people. It also isn't a competition to find out who is the most faithful of the faith-based beekeepers. It is a simple pleasure for many, a labor of love for a few, and a struggle for profit for fewer still. None of them have much time for something that that is a bit like Scientology, but without the celebrities or extraterrestrials. For most beekeepers, flexibility is the best tool, and dogma of any sort does for beekeeping what the Spanish Inquisition did for Catholicism. If the past 20 years have taught us anything, it should have taught us to have a deep and robust toolbox of alternatives to deal with invasive exotic pests, pathogens, and parasites of bees. But the lesson is hard for the newer beekeepers, as they haven't seen so much look so promising and then turn out to be so disappointing. > clearly, we have at least a few examples > (dee, michael bush, eric osterland) of people > that have either bred their own stock... And there is a clear and compelling explanation from Tom Seeley about what they actually "bred" as opposed what they might THINK they were breeding. Bill Truesdell did a fine job of summarizing here: http://tinyurl.com/5e9ne9 But the bottom line here is the most plausible explanation for why the same results cannot be reproduced elsewhere is that Dee, Michael, and Eric have been unwittingly breeding for less virulent mites, and had the luck of being isolated from other beekeepers. This tidy explanation fits everything we've seen in terms of subjecting bees to varroa under controlled conditions. Colonies claimed to be "immune" proved themselves anything but by dying out more quickly than even the controls. > what happens when bees are put onto comb from > deadouts due to nosema c. when no treatments, > fumigation, or irradiation is used? The bees tend to become reinfected with Nosema ceranae unless the comb is fumigated or sterilized. Eric Mussen would be the authority here - check out his newsletter. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************