The Amish and Mennonite lifestyles are all about faith and dedicating one's life to God. To even consider them in any other context (such as"sustainable") completely misses the very point of living that lifestyle and what makes it possible. In case no one has noticed, it's their faith that sustains them and allows them to live simply, not the other way around. I know that concept is hard for some to get their arms around, but it is essential for us to understand that some things are not subject to a smorgasboard approach. It's all or nothing. If you're interested in living that model, you absolutely must accept the religious dicipline first. It doesn't work otherwise, as we proved in numerous communes in the 60's. Not to disparage these folks or their systems, but living such a simple and pacifist life in this world is only possible within the confines of a hugely complex military/industrial system that's actually doing the heavy lifting. In addition, as Lloyd points out, those systems do not produce the surplus required by a nation of 300+ million people in the 21st century. barry digman ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************