>...it looks to me as if you are saying that morphometrics is only good for comparison and selection within a known population of honey bees. If so, by extension, I would see that as suggesting that the technique is not well suited to identifying the race of unknown samples of honey bees. Oh yes, it does. It depends on which kind of morphometric method you choose. > Morphometry is no 'magic bullet' and should never be the final arbiter > in decision making. But pretty close. See abstract bellow. Abstract from Eurbee 2006. EUROPEAN BEES, THEIR MORPHOLOGY AND MICROSATELLITES Frantisek Kaspar1, Tomas Kott2, Kvetoslav Cermak1, Dalibor Titera1 1Bee Research Institute at Dol, E-mail beedol©beedol.cz 2Research Institute of Animal Production, Prague - Uhríneves, E-mail kott.tomas©vuzv.cz The protection and use of bees´ gene pool in special programs, in rearing and in beekeeping practice cannot omit the description of the belonging to races. The description of gene types were afore based only on pedigree records and phenotypical, morphometric analysis. The new feature for the genotype description is the microsatellite analysis. DNA was isolated from of worker bees conserved after the taking by drying, freezing or by inserting into 75% ethanol. Isolation was carried out on ABI 3100 Nuclei Acid Preparation Station using NucPrep™ Chemistry method. The analysis was based on tests of 14 locuses assembled in four multiplexes [A29, Ap33, Ap36, Ap43],[Ap1, Ap12, Ap55],[ A37, A7, A8],[Ap113, Ap16, Ap19, Ap34]. In this way 600 bees were analysed various geographical races [carnica, mellifera, ligustica] from various regions. The applied method offers data for very detailed discrimination of distances among populations. The results were compared and completed by morphometric analysis of wings using DAWINO method. The method of microsatellite analyzes is a good tool for very detailed discrimination of distances among populations. http://www.beedol.cz/ http://www.beedol.cz/dawino/DAWINO_prosp_EN.pdf http://www.beedol.cz/dawino/DAWINO_protocol_EN.pdf And the poster !!! http://www.quicknet.se/home/q-119076/BONUS/1-bonus.html -> Avel -> DAWINO; see point 5 \vov -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---