Well Chris with a mild english winter and AMM you may be right , the queen in those circumstances lay all year Tell us what the Sottish fellows say, then you differentiate race vrs temp In northern US and Canada the bees certainly stop laying Some of mine have already 1 week stopped Today at least 3 had no unsealed brood, this seems early, I should have fed (: In other words Northern Queens get a 3 or 4 or 5 month vacation Strong hives start up to a month earlier, to me this suggest that it is temperature related. While bees can make a lot of heat, if they have to do it for a long time, it must wear them out About half the dead-outs have sealed brood, dead Nov-Dec 1/4 frame to 2.5 frames, avg ~.8 frame??? Some of this will be mischance of location, lots can be laid to weakness, but clearly the queen laid too long Darwin rules In my climate i don't worry if the Q doesn't start until Mar, less likely to run out of pollen, many are not so adapted but I'm near the northern limit, this skews the dates Hives that start too early often piddle along forever, only get going when its warm and barely (at best) gather average honey Heaters make big difference here, most respond Now my question is: Does it wear a bee out to make/draw wax? I made all my nuc draw 2 frames Sep20-30 lotsa feed, fancy frames etc Was it a bad move? As to varroa I am entirely satisfied with OA(v) if the hive can't withstand 1 year, good ridance dave -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l for rules, FAQ and other info ---