Dear all: Sometimes I don't realize what is and is not common knowledge coming from a different background from many LCs. I did my doctoral studies in a Nutritional Sciences Department that had a physical anthropologist and I guess I just assumed that this was part of the training for most RDs and for medical staff as well. We played with skin calipers, hanging scales, digital scales, length boards, height boards, bioelectrical impedence devices, and the RDs (we weren't included in this) did the underwater weighing. We did neat little exericises to determine accuracy, reliability & dependability. All of these are quite important when taking measurements. I got to hear the official version of how test weighing came about and the dark ages of what came before. Test weighing was a result of a considerable amount of work on getting accurate and reliable measurements. Dependability is determined by such factors as time of day, vigor of the feeding, etc. So, the history of test weighing is grounded in the problems of the ratio of the infant's size compared to the intake as well as the fact that infants wiggle. A fair amount of research went into conquering this problem. The end result was that the only way that you could compensate for the wiggle factor in infants in terms of measuring intake was to get a triple average. This used to be done by hand. Researchers would weigh the infant 3 x before the feed and 3 x after the feed. Now the new scales do this electronically. In anthropometric circles of research all of this is well known. I am astounded that anyone even dared to publish something as silly as comparing eyeballing bottle intake with a fair amount of research on triple average weights. Since this was so thoroughly covered in my doctoral studies I thought it was common knowledge and dumped my files on the topic about 5 years after I finished my PhD. What is important for us as clinicians is not the accuracy and precision of weighing scales which are thoroughly documented despite some recent sophmoric research that was totally unfounded in using eyeballing bottle intake as a gold standard (my former professors will be appalled). What is important to us is the dependability. When we weigh the baby and how that compares with the usual feed. This is the same problem with ANY measurement we would take on the baby whether it is counting swallows, listening for swallow noises, or any other clinical observation. Any observation we make on the baby is but a slice of the picture. So, it seems to me that any criticism of using a digital scale to estimate intake could be applied to ANY technique that one uses to estimate intake. How can you extrapolate to the entire picture your one observation of the suck swallow pattern? In this regard, I have the total luxury of having abandoned my former interesting, but high stress time intensive work in international nutrition for more control over my time. I could make tons more money in Manhattan if I were willing to pack in the clients on a tighter schedule, but I'm no longer at this stage in life willing to do so. If I lived in a less densely populated area, I wouldn't survive economically. So, I can tell you that there is a huge difference in the picture you get if you wait for the baby to feed rather than nudging them to feed according to the LC's schedule. The most extreme case I remember was a baby that should have been ready to feed when I arrived and wasn't. Scale or observation, I'm sure all of you would have concluded the baby was lethargic and not feeding well. Had I not had the luxury of spending a good 3 hours with this mom, I would not have observed and measured a fabulous feeding about 2-1/2 hours after I arrived. It changed the equation entirely. This was not dependent on the tool used to estimate intake - it was merely being able to spend time with the mom. So, I conclude that for babies at risk - all should be triaged into a situation where more extensive evaluations can be done be it history taking, regular follow up, measurement of intake or any other tools we have to analyze a problem in more depth. As a side note, one of my professors confessed the details of the absurdity of other measures that were used to determine the amount of milk produced back in the earlier days of trying to guestimate milk production (which I consider very different from infant intake). Apparently they used conical devices that they placed on women's breasts which had been calibrated to guestimate the volume of milk that could be held in that particular volume of breast tissue. We all know how variable breast tissue is in terms of the ratio of fat to glandular tissue so you can imagine how incredibly inaccurate this method was. Now I think of the absurdity of sizing a woman's breasts for breast shields for the pump by looking at the resting breast. I saw some device that was intended to measure nipple size for such sizing. Well intended. But when you actually observe women pumping again and again and again, you realize nipple size has nothing to do with the size of the breast shield that will be comfortable. So, to conclude, the research is pretty solid and vast (in at least the international nutrition circles that came from) that the test weighing with triple average digital scales is the most accurate and precise method, BUT 1) not all circumstances require that degree of accuracy 2) any method of estimating intake be it clinical observation or test weighing requires judgement about the dependability of the measurements/observations taken 3) the use of data from any source be it test weighing or clinical observation is highly dependent upon the skills of the user Best regards, Susan Burger *********************************************** To temporarily stop your subscription: set lactnet nomail To start it again: set lactnet mail (or digest) To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet All commands go to [log in to unmask] The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(R) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. 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