Hello Everyone, I've been reading the archives but would like to post this situation anyway... Helping a second time mom with 18 day old baby. Baby weighed 7 lbs 14 oz at birth born at home- no complications... Lowest recorded weight was 7 lbs 5 oz on day 3. Highest recorded weight was 7 lbs 15 oz (mom recalls this as being on day 6). Today baby weighed 7 lbs 11 oz. Mom did not notice increase in breast size during either pregnancy but did have darkening of areolae. Mom had retained placenta with first baby. She felt that supplementation led to downward spiral in supply that she never recovered from, even after placenta was removed. She purchased a Pump in Style, she took fenugreek and nettle (among other herbs which she can't recall now) and used an SNS in an attempt to save breastfeeding. (She did NOT have a blood transfusion and does not feel she lost a lot of blood in association with the retained placenta) After this birth she experienced slight breast fullness in the early days of breastfeeding, but nothing she would describe as dramatic or uncomfortable. She has small but symmetrical breasts. I would describe them as completely normal for a slender non-lactating woman. They seem flaccid like close-to-weaning or non-lactating breasts. She can squeeze milk from them but never sees milk leaking from the other breast when she is nursing. She only hears audible swallowing from the baby during night nursings. She sleeps with the baby and cue feeds. The baby is never happy off the breast any time during the day, but will sleep an hour or two off the breast after a night nursing with copious audible swallowing. The baby is very thin but latches beatifully and nurses vigorously at first. The mother's nipples are not damaged or sore. After nursing from both breasts and for about 40 minutes and to sleep the baby had consumed just 2/10 of an ounce. The mother reports when she pumps after nursing she can only pump enough to cover the bottoms of the collection bottles. The mother describes the stools as watery but frequent 6-10 times a day. She is a vegan, and daughter of a vegetarian- her mother came with her to the consult. They impressed me as knowledgable and motivated so I'm inclined to think B-!2 deficiency is not the culprit. However she does consume a lot of soy and I wonder about the role phyto-estrogens might be playing in her difficulty. I have asked her to replace the soy she consumes with other protein sources for the time being. Do vegans need to consume a lot more food than non-vegans inorder to absorb all the nutrients they need out of their food? (I'm thinking about whether or not fiber or phytates can alter the bioavailabiluty of nutrients...) She kept a diet diary in conjunction with her Bradley class and her highest recorded protien intake in one day was 90 grams. The mother's mother has a thyroid with only one functioning lobe. When she was younger this presented to no problem for her...she conceived and breastfed her children with no trouble...but she has needed thyroid replacement in recent years. I sent her home with a scale. She is planning to nurse and then supplement on as needed basis according to the test weighings...I am hoping night nursings might not require supplementation. Whenever a nursing requires supplementation she is going to pump while the baby is digesting the formula supplement. Her experience with supplementing at the breast with her first child was not a positive one, but I sent her home with an SNS in case she decides she wants to use it. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Jennifer O'Quinn IBCLC *********************************************** To temporarily stop your subscription: set lactnet nomail To start it again: set lactnet mail (or digest) To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet All commands go to [log in to unmask] The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(R) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html