Hi Ann, I am in now way an expert in frenulums - but they can be further back and that can impair the suck / swallow. Catherine Watson Genna and Dr Elizabeth Coryllos are the area experts in frenulums. It seems that these types of frenulums are type 3 or 4. I have seen a few recently - the palate is very high - the tongue does not go up at all - so it doesn't do the job - depending on the babies disposition they either get hysterical or they fall alseep and lose weight. Have someone in your area check it out. Hopefully you can find a ped surgeon or ent that will know the newest information and is breastfeeding friendly. I am so blessed to know Dr Coryllos and extremely lucky to have "assisted" in quite a few frenotomys. As far as the no nipple pain - my neighbor nursed twins for over a year with type 2 frenulums - that were finally clipped at 4 yrs old with no pain or problems at all. It is the moms that have the problems that get the frenotomys earlier - the ones that make it with no problems wind up having kids with speech problems - of course not always. Another possibilty to look into is retained placenta - although rare I have seen two mothers in six months with it. The same story - very low supply, the bleeding stops and then one day there is a gush of blood and clots and then the milk is flowing. Both moms had sonograms and the last one the doctor said there never was a retained placenta. OK - then why after that did her milk "decide" to come in? PS both of these moms were c -sections also. Good luck - sometimes there is no real answer - which is so hard for us to deal with. Donna Kimick, IBCLC, RLC Massapequa Park *********************************************** To temporarily stop your subscription: set lactnet nomail To start it again: set lactnet mail (or digest) To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet All commands go to [log in to unmask] The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(R) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html