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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:19:53 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Michelle DePesa <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Daily News article
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http://www.macon.com/mld/dailynews/news/opinion/12683568.htm
I cannot wait to read the replies that Lactnetters will come up with.
Unfortunately, I cannot think of one. I believe the author has revealed
several of her biases in this opinion piece and I can safely surmise
she is not appreciative of - in fact probably sneers at - the
"reality-based community" and will not be swayed by any rational
argument I can make. What I am interested in knowing is: how *common*
is her attitude? I cannot wait until this prejudice and discrimination
is a thing of the past. It will be, because of the amazing work done by
the people on this list. Every time something like this comes up, I
learn SO MUCH from the response I read here.
Michelle DePesa
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:50:58 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Reynolds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: UNICEF Withdrawing Support for the International Code
Comments: cc: Rachel Myr <[log in to unmask]>
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Forwarding from & sharing on behalf of INFACT Canada (I've had to snip off
the attached letter - it is a form letter supplied by INFACT - it is 2 long
pages - if it is appropriate to the list, and okay with the listmothers, I
will post it to the Lactnet list for sharing)
Janice Reynolds
----- Original Message -----
From: INFACT Canada
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: ACTION ALERT - UNICEF Withdrawing Support for the International
Code!
Anne Veneman recently took over the post of the Executive
Director of the United Nations International Children's Fund (UNICEF), but
has already made some startling changes to the organization. Veneman, who
was picked by President Bush for the position, has announced that UNICEF
will no longer provide legal assistance for governments in order to enact
the International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes into national
legislation. Since the International Code was passed in 1981, UNICEF has
helped 64 countries legistlate some form of the Code, and 23 additional
countries now have similar laws pending. The withdrawl of UNICEF's support
in this process seriously damages the ability of any further nations to pass
the International Code into law.
A lack of strong legal measures controlling the marketing of
breastmilk substitues puts infants and young children at risk and will
surely impede the achievement of the United Nations' Millenium Development
Goal of reducing global infant mortality by two thirds by 2015. This
decision by Veneman clearly runs counter to UNICEF's mandate of protecting
the health of infants and young children the world over.
Veneman's action is all the more disheartening because of her
links to major food companies. Before becoming Seceratary of Agriculture
under George W. Bush, she served on the International Policy Council on
Agriculture, Food and Trade, a group funded in part by Nestle, the world's
largest baby food manufacturer and the greatest single violator of the
International Code.
While many doubt that Veneman's experience as a corporate lawyer
for major food companies qualified her to head UNICEF, unfortunately she has
already been appointed and the international community will have to do its
best to cooperate. This is a drastically important issue and urgent action
is needed. Please inform Veneman that cutting support for the International
Code is an absolutely unacceptable decision that will cost young lives.
Alter the attached letter or send your own to:
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:08:48 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ellen Kadden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: breastfeeding
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I'm sorry, but I think I read in your piece about
"public" breastfeeding (in your office), that a mother
should feed her child in the bathroom. Is that where
you eat?
Do I understand correctly that you think breastfeeding
is a private act? Do you eat only in private?
In my state of Connecticut, there is a law to protect
a woman's right to breastfeed her child wherever she
has the right to be-public, private, or government
property. It seems like a silly law, because of
course babies need to be fed when they need it, and
you wouldn't object to a baby being given a bottle.
And when you think about it, a woman breastfeeding is
pretty covered up-more even than teenagers in a bikini
on the beach I go to.
I can't even dignify the remark regarding urinating in
public. Are you seriously meaning to say that
providing "Nature's Perfect Food" is the same as
eliminating waste?
So-what's the real problem?
Sincerely yours
Ellen Kadden M.A., IBCLC
Fairfield CT
mother of 3 breastfed adult children, all of whom
think breastfeeding in public is just dandy
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:12:45 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ellen Kadden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: nursing in public
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Hello Friends-
I just cc'd to the list a response I wrote re "nursing
in public". I didn't even cool off-hope it was
appropriate, and not too rude-Ellen Kadden
Fairfield, CT
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:54:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 19 Sep 2005 - Special issue (#2005-208)
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In a message dated 9/19/2005 8:37:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Educational needs of mothers with low SES
I just wanted to say that I grew up as a teenager in Appalachia in the
1960s. At that time, many mothers could be described as being low socioeconomic
status. I guess I was even included in that classification, but didn't know it
until Dan Rather and CBS news lined all the students up in front of the school
to announce the President's Appalachia program on the evening news and told
the world to " look into the eyes of poverty". At that time, probably 95%
of babies were breastfeeding throughout Appalachia, at least until they were
put on other food of some type-cow's or goat milk, cereal, etc. If you look
at breastfeeding rates in North Carolina, they are still consistently higher
in Appalachia then other parts of the state. Why is this when the mothers of
Appalachia still struggle with education, and economic challenges? I think
that WIC contributed to a decline in the breastfeeding rates in their target
populations in the 1970-1980s by offering formula and forgetting to mention
breastfeeding. Those of us who are older, remember this time in WIC. The women
of Appalachia are proud and very reluctant to accept welfare or charity and so
WIC was not as accepted at those times so babies were breastfed, and those
women are now the aunts and grandmothers who women of childbearing age turn to
for support and information. The population there gets much of their
education from their same sex family members--grandmothers, aunts,etc who probably
breastfed their own children. The women also relied on 'Granny midwives" a
great deal until the state decided that medicalized childbirth is safer. I
remember Granny midwives who were trained by the Kentucky Nursing Frontier were
still delivering babies in the 1970-80s.
My background, observations made from my childhood experiences ( including a
community member who delivered over 3000 babies safely at home in the hills
of Appalachia), and the education I received in public health education, all
have formed my style of teaching. This includes not judging a women by her
socioeconomic levels, education levels, cultural beliefs, or country of birth. I
have found in my 23 years of helping mothers breastfeed their babies, in my
community which is predominately African American, and low income, that it is
most helpful to listen, find out what they know, why they know this, where
their education, and support comes from, who are their helpers, their role
models, and their value system, and then provide an combination of support,
along with some education, with some common sense and an understanding of their
community and family life and values. Just because a women doesn't have a
degree, diploma or classwork, doesn't mean that she doesn't want to learn, or
doesn't already have the information she needs. Sometimes they just don't let
you know what they know because they don't trust you or the system. You have to
go slow, be understanding and patient, and wait to be accepted before you
are able to see any changes.
Barbara Whitehead, BS, IBCLC, RLC
Eastern NC
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:26:19 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "D. McCallister" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Response to Philadelphia article:
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My letter to the editor, below:
Subject: Philadelphia Daily News article
http://www.macon.com/mld/dailynews/news/opinion/12683568.htm
In giving thought to the opinion article "LACTOSE-INTOLERANT" by Christine
M. Flowers, I had to read several times to try to grasp exactly what Ms.
Flowers' precise issue was. The vehement approach she used in taking
exception to the act of public breastfeeding was muddled by so many bizarre
metaphors that she loses her lawyerly sense of logic and persuasiveness.
Ms. Flowers seems to have confused feeding with toileting, drawing a
parallel between a man urinating in public with a woman nursing her infant.
Further, she asserts that nursing belongs in the restroom. One wonders when
Ms. Flowers last ate her lunch while sitting on the can in the women's
bathroom. Certainly, if she regards the toilet as an appropriate place for
a baby to eat, she must dine there as well.
She states that she "expects and demands that people not force their own
militant preferences" on her in public places. Interesting. I'm still
scratching my head on this one, since the entire purpose of the article is
to force her own militant preferences on unsuspecting infants through her
public voice in a newspaper. How many times has Ms. Flowers been restrained
and cruelly forced to witness a nursing infant? I imagine it likely that
Ms. Flowers is in complete control of her ability to avert her eyes.
Ms. Flowers concludes with, "That seems to be the problem with many nursing
mothers - it's more about the image than about the child.
Her "evidence" for the above statement is that a woman chose to meet the
needs of her infant rather than concern herself with Ms. Flowers phobia of
bare breasts. That mothers fail to give into her "demand" that she control
the feeding of their babies. That mothers refuse to give their babies food
in a room designed for disposing of bodily waste. That mothers seem worried
that they might be perceived as giving their children inferior nutrition by
formula-feeding. That mother's milk is better for babies. That feeding is
necessary. That breastfeeding (and breasts) are beautiful.
One wonders, if this is evidence of women more concerned with their image
than the needs of their infant, how precisely does Ms. Flowers define a good
and selfless mother?
Bottom line: Her arguments are motivated by fear, substantiated with
misunderstandings, and fail to meet any standard for logic. Worse yet, her
stance has the ability to cause direct harm to the health of infants by
discouraging their mothers from breastfeeding for all the wrong reasons.
Shame on her.
Deb McCallister
Louisville, Kentucky
Posted on Mon, Sep. 19, 2005
Christine M. Flowers | LACTOSE-INTOLERANT
THE OTHER DAY, I was counseling a client on her legal options when, without
pausing to ask if I minded, she lifted her blouse and began to breast-feed
her infant daughter.
Christine M. Flowers is a lawyer. E-mail [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:32:04 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Reynolds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF Withdrawing Support for the International Code
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The INFACT Action Alert, and the form letter drafted by INFACT for your use,
is at:
http://www.infactcanada.ca/action_alert_Sept1805.htm
Janice Reynolds
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:58:20 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Rosellina Cosentino <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pumping for prem baby
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Regardeless the amt. That the baby takes now, she should be pumping up
to 800ml in 24 hour, in order to maintain her milk supply for later,
when the baby is ready to take the above amt.
Ciao,
Rosellina Cosentino
This mother is pumping 40 - 45 mls at a time. Over the weekend =
apparently her volume dropped a little but is now back up . I have =
suggested that she pumps 2 hourly through the day and 3 hourly overnight
=
to help bring her volume up. Her baby is now taking 45 mls per feed.
Thankyou
June Nicholls
IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:01:58 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lara <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump companies
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On 20/09/2005, at 4:16, Andrea C. Tran wrote:
> In a perfect world no babies would be born premature, no babies
> would be born with abnormalities that make them unable to suck
> effectively, and all mothers could stay home with their babies and
> not work.
>
> We don't live in a perfect world and breast pumps enable these
> mothers to provide their baby with breastmilk.
Hear here - they also allow other mothers to provide donor milk for
those few babies whose mothers are unable to do so.
Lara Hopkins
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:04:33 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Laura Hart, RN, BSN, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: hand mitts
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In a message dated 9/19/2005 7:19:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I've been chastised for recommending the soft emery
board. Is there any research out there that anyone knows of that says that
cutting the nails early poses any risk to the baby or that baby emery boards
can cause harm?
Linda Anderegg, RNC, IBCLC, RLC
I'm not aware of the research on this, but our policy is not to cut baby's
fingernails in the hospital. We often suggest using a fine emery board to
smooth out the edges. What is wrong with that?
Laura Hart
Winter Park FL
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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:23:16 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jeanette Panchula <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pumping for a premie
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A concept that has been brought up today by Carolyn Melcher at her "Birth
and Beyond" training is the idea of "cluster pumping". If babies tend to
"cluster feed" why not have moms "cluster pump"?
Is it not possible - and probable - that mothers could maintain a milk
supply, despite erratic scheduling, if WHEN they COULD pump - they pumped q
30 to 45 minutes?
So for example a mom who has to go see her baby - pumps at home twice in one
hour, then it takes 3 - 4 hours to get there and visit her baby, then she
pumps there (assuming baby can't nurse) then it takes 2 - 3 hours to return
- but when she is home she pumps at 6, 7, 8, 9 for 10-15 (?) minutes each
time. So she pumps a total of 12-14 times in 24 hours, but not q 2 or q 3
hours?
Perhaps a study could be designed with moms who find they CAN'T do the usual
schedule - but could "cluster pump" at home? Instead of pumping at 6 and 9,
she could fit in 4 "cluster pumpings" once or twice a day?
Jeanette Panchula
California
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:42:12 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lara <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pumping for a premie
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On 20/09/2005, at 13:23, Jeanette Panchula wrote:
> A concept that has been brought up today by Carolyn Melcher at her
> "Birth
> and Beyond" training is the idea of "cluster pumping". If babies
> tend to
> "cluster feed" why not have moms "cluster pump"?
>
> Is it not possible - and probable - that mothers could maintain a milk
> supply, despite erratic scheduling, if WHEN they COULD pump - they
> pumped q
> 30 to 45 minutes?
"Power pumping" techniques are commonly recommended in the pumpmoms
and EPers mothers' groups - some mums will pump for a long time at
each session, other mums "power pump" once or twice a day between
regular sessions - ten minutes on, ten minutes off for 60-90 minutes
or more - which seems to work very well in stimulating supply. Many
mums will do this in the evening (when their partner can do the
parenting), which would appear to me to be simulating a young baby's
typical evening cluster or marathon feeding. A handsfree bra helps a
huge amount - time to catch up on emails and not watch the horns!
Aside: Many mums seem to be being told "by LCs" (I'm not sure whether
they're IBCLCs a lot of the time) that "you should never pump for
more than 15 (or 20) minutes at a time" - I'm not sure where this
meme has come from, as it doesn't seem to hold true for many, and
seems an unnecessary restriction so long as the mother is comfortable
and has a fitted well breastshield.
Lara Hopkins
GP in Western Australia, EPed for Luke for 14.5 months
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:00:30 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: TNA <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF Withdrawing Support for the International Code
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This reads almost like a spam letter. The second sentence starts off with a
staggering aside ...
"Anne Veneman recently took over the post of the Executive
Director of the United Nations International Children's Fund (UNICEF), but
has already made some startling changes to the organization. Veneman, who
was picked by President Bush for the position... "
How did the President of United States get to pick the Executive Director of
a United NATIONS body? Remind me what USA didn't sign - The Innocenti
Declaration, or was it the Convention on the Rights of the Child? Or even
both?
And how was a person with ties to the babyfood industry, if this is true,
become appointed to UNICEF of all places?
If this letter is true, it's a world gone mad. The foxes have taken over
the hen-houses. We cannot imagine that Ms Veneman is completely unsupported
in her new role of reversing gains of the past ...
Jacquie Nutt
South Africa
Still waiting for our not-quite-adequate-but-better-than-nothing draft laws
to actually be signed two years after being published for industry (um,
public) comment.
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:43:28 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Kathryne Bredbeck <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: belly balls, references for stomach capacities
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What about the stomach size for premature infants? Do they start out
smaller, but grow as rapidly?
Facts and guesstimates welcome.
Katie Bredbeck
On Monday, September 19, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Rachel Miller wrote:
> Basically the stomach capacities are:
> Day 1: 5-7 ml, size of small glass marble, hazelnut, or thimble
> (In the womb babies swallow amniotic fluid one swallow at a time, every
> once in a while. That's all the volume they are used to having in their
> stomachs at any one time, just a swallow or two. Maybe this is why
> lots of
> formula fed babies spit up alot the first day or they just refuse to
> take
> more than a few swigs each time they eat)
>
> Day 3: 22-27 ml, about 1 oz, use the baby's own fist, it's a great
> ready-
> made visual for the parents! You could also use a shooter marble.
>
> Day 10 45-60 ml, about 1.5oz to 2oz, size of a walnut, golf ball, or
> ping
> pong ball
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:27:49 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: mvance12 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cite for FLowers reply/info
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For those of you who are on the "right" you may want to ID yourselves, b/c
otherwise she will tag everyone as feminists-which she hates. If you are
Roman Catholic and can cite anything from the church (I believe there is
something out there--I'm not RC) that would be great too.
BTW, she's an immigration lawyer--wonder what all those poor immigrant moms
do?
Melissa, speaking in her own capacity here.
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:47:46 EDT
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From: "Claudia G. RN/IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: research needed
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I need research based evidence on why we support the WHO Code as it applies
to the hospital setting in the US. After a lengthy debate with my director she
finally said that she would love to read the information I am basing my stand
on because if we are doing something bad in the hospital she needs to know
it. This is one very sharp director who is forced to answer to a hospital board
made up of mostly ABBOTT labs bigwigs and she won't even look at something
that doesn't have research behind it. I know if I walk in with piles of things
she won't see it because she is too busy to go through it. I need concise
info on why we should not advertise formula, why I ask if Ross is sponsoring
luncheons before I attend and the hazards and risks of formula feeding! Thanks!
Claudia Globerger RN/IBCLC
Claudia
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:53:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Naomi Bar-Yam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: heartbreaking story
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There was a heartbreaking story in the Boston Globe this morning. A 4
month old baby died of arsenic poisoning when his formula bottle was
accidentally filled with arsenic laced water at a party. The host
thought it was spring water.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/09/20/
case_of_babys_arsenic_death_brings_wrenching_testimony/
> LAWRENCE -- As seconds became minutes, and as each minute brought
> his 4-month-old son, Benjamin, closer to death, Douglas Glynn drove
> frantically between the hospital in Beverly, where Benjamin was
> vomiting blood, and the Nahant home of a business client, where
> doctors suspected that Benjamin had drunk the substance that had
> poisoned him.
>
> When Glynn brought the jug of clear liquid to the emergency room, a
> doctor discovered to her horror that a warning label taped to the
> handle indicated that the liquid contained dangerous levels of
> arsenic.
>
> ...
>
> Glynn, a financial adviser who said he and his wife, Sonja, now
> have a second daughter named Zoe, testified that the couple arrived
> at Pitsas' home at about 5 p.m. that Saturday and sought water so
> they could make baby formula for Benjamin and give Morgan a drink.
Naomi Bar-Yam
--------------------------------
Naomi Bar-Yam Ph.D.
[log in to unmask]
Researcher, Writer, Educator
in Maternal and Child Health
--------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:18:27 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Krainz, Mary Ann" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Phil News Article
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cyBwcm9oaWJpdGVkLg0K
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:26:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Chris Mulford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: My response to Christine Flowers
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Subj: Intolerance (to lactose or to lactating women)
9/20/05
Dear Ms. Flowers,
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion about where babies and
their mothers might breastfeed and how the other people who are present
might respond. A lot has been written about this topic, and we're nowhere
near reaching a resolution yet.
I gather from your commentary that you were rendered uncomfortable, even
"very uncomfortable," because
a) a client gave her baby her breast while consulting with you, and
b) she did this without asking, "Do you mind if we nurse?"
In fact, she assumed that you would not mind, when the truth was that you
did, and you had no opportunity to say so. So you have used your column to
tell us all instead.
I also gather that if she had asked for your permission to breastfeed, you
would have denied it and offered the mom and baby accommodation in the
bathroom or a vacant office. One question that comes to mind with that
scenario is, would the time that elapsed while the mother cared for her baby
be billable time for you? You and the mother had been conducting a business
transaction. If you chose to interrupt it for an indefinite period-nursings
can last anywhere from a few seconds to an hour plus-then it is your time
that would have been wasted. It seems only right for you to pay for the lost
time, since you were the person with the problem.
Instead, you chose to "[guide] the consultation to a swift conclusion." I
wonder whether your client received the full benefit of the service that she
was paying for. If not, perhaps you should consider lowering your fee for
the consultation.again, you were the person with the problem.
Your essay brought up the question of competing rights. As a lawyer, you
must have to deal with this all the time. There are three people's rights to
consider here, the baby's, the mother's, and yours.
You leave no doubt that you support the baby's right to receive appropriate
care. You phrased it in terms of "eating," but I would like to suggest that
the issue here is really "sucking." Babies and young children spend a lot of
time sucking-on thumbs and fingers (usually their own), on toys, on
artifacts specifically made for the purpose (bottle teats and pacifiers),
and on their mothers' breasts. Babies suck at the breast for food, for
drink, for soothing, to aid digestion, to fall asleep, and probably for many
other reasons that we grownups haven't figured out (or have forgotten).
It seems from what you say that it's only sucking on a breast that bothers
you. If a care-giving father had consulted with you and brought his
pacifier-sucking infant along, there wouldn't have been a problem, right?
So this brings us to the second person's rights. Does a lactating mother
have the right to give her child the breast in public and private places?
(By the way, is a law firm-a place of business-public or private?) If your
office is a public place and located in Philadelphia, then a city ordinance
specifically says that she does. Further, it says that when she breastfeeds,
she cannot be "segregated," as in "sent to another location like a vacant
office or a bathroom."
If your office is a private place, then I suppose that what your client does
with her baby there is between you and her. I absolutely agree that it would
have been only common courtesy for her to ask you, her host, "Do you mind if
we nurse?" And when you said yes, it would have been up to her to decide
whether she wanted to continue to use and pay for your services.
Perhaps a compromise could have been reached. Suppose she turned her back
but continued to talk and listen to you.would that have been acceptable to
you? Suppose you turned your back? Suppose you went to the vacant office and
called her on the inter-office phone? Would any of these solutions have
allowed you to be comfortable continuing to provide her your professional
services? It's too bad she didn't ask, so the two of you could have had this
discussion.
So now we're at the third person's rights, your right not to be exposed to
what you consider an offensive act. In case you're wondering, I fully
support your right not to have your clients smoking, playing loud music, or
urinating in your office. The problem with comparing these behaviors to
nursing is that each of them produces a noxious effect-toxins in your air,
interference with effective communication, or pee in your potted palm. With
babies it's different. A fussy baby makes adult conversation much more
difficult than a baby who is quietly smooching at the breast-although I
admit you never can tell with babies. Lots of things they do are not quiet.
So I think the issue boils down to this: should an adult caregiver be
allowed to bring a baby along to a consultation with a professional? Surely
it's your right to tell people not to bring babies to your office. But if
you go that route, then I think that the prohibition should apply to ALL
babies, not just the nursing mothers with their babies. Otherwise, it sounds
mighty like gender discrimination.
And this brings me back again to the mother. I think there are a lot of us
out here who don't want to see a woman forced to stay home, in a "private"
place, because she has elected to care for her baby in the way that is
recommended by public health bodies, health care professionals, many of the
major religions, and taxpayer-supported government programs like WIC. Women
have things to do in the public sphere, even when they have babies. Women
have business to transact, they have contributions to make, they have work
to do, and they might even want to have some fun.
Instead of expecting a woman to check out of public life for a year or two
every time she has a child, let's put our heads together as a culture and
find ways to welcome and support her and her baby. This might mean that
people sometimes see a baby at the breast. And I bet the more they see it,
the less of a problem it will be. When my mother was young, it was
considered improper for a pregnant woman to appear in public. When I was
young, you rarely saw disabled people, like people with Down syndrome, in
public. But attitudes have changed, and attitudes toward nursing babies can
change too. We just need to keep the conversation going.
Yours truly,
Chris Mulford
former breastfeeding mother
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:52:29 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judith Hayman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump companies
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>> We don't live in a perfect world and breast pumps enable these
>> mothers to provide their baby with breastmilk.
>Hear here - they also allow other mothers to provide donor milk for =20
>those few babies whose mothers are unable to do so.
Before there were pumps, there were hands. And in most of the world
they still work quite effectively. We North Americans are FAR too
squeamish to do something so icky as actually manipulate our breasts...
Tongue in cheek, but essentially true. I have moms convinced that in
order to breastfeed, they MUST have a pump. And not just a simple
manual for leaving babe occasiaonlly. Oh, no, we must have the fancy
$300 one. And many have been convinced that a pump and bottle is EASIER
than direct feeding. A month later they use formula. (On home visits
I'll see 3 or 4 different pumps in some homes, none of them quite as
efficient as mom perceived they would be).
The use of pumps for the situations of specific need, like prematurity
and donation, are the exception. Here, over 80% of women initiate BF
and most of them own a manual pump. That's close to market saturation.
To increase sales, you have to change or add to the market niche. The
pump companies have created a demand for pumps where no NEED exists.
That is, to my mind where they have crossed the line from informational
advertising to belief-changing advertising.
Judith
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:44:10 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Phyllis Harris -Swenson IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Playtex bottle vs human breast
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Diane,
They just don't get it. In the past I heard our office 'know it all'
(RE:
infant feeding) remark that some woman was using her breast like a
pacifier. I had to speak up like you did in your letter. The artificial
method is the everyday norm to most. The diseases are the everyday norm
to most, including many HCP. When will they realize that most of us
over 80, 70, even 60 (men and women) have seen nursing moms as the norm
when we were younger. The more we cover our babies & hide in the bath
room (uck) the more the germ infested Playtex bottle half full of formula
is going to be the norm.
Regards,
P.Harris-Swenson, MA, IBCLC
Nutritionist
Still behind E- mail!
Lowell, MA USA
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:25:28 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Naomi Bar-Yam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: research needed
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> I need research based evidence on why we support the WHO Code as it
> applies
> to the hospital setting in the US....
Claudia,
There is a lot of research out there on this topic. Marsha Walker
has done a lot of work in reviewing all the research and putting it
in easy to read and understand terms for people who want to help but
are too busy to do a full lit. review. Take a look at "Selling Out
Mothers and Babies: Marketing Breast Milk Substitutes in the USA"
It's put out by NABA, I think you can order it from their website. It
has a lot of the information you are looking for in clear concise
language.
For your own information, I found "Holding Corporations Accountable:
corporate conduct, International codes, and citizen action", by
Judith Richter (2001, Zed books) very informative.
Hope this is helpful, I'm interested to see what other people
recommend as well.
Naomi Bar-Yam
--------------------------------
Naomi Bar-Yam Ph.D.
[log in to unmask]
Researcher, Writer, Educator
in Maternal and Child Health
--------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:46:31 +0800
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lara <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pump companies
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On 20/09/2005, at 20:52, Judith Hayman wrote:
>>> We don't live in a perfect world and breast pumps enable these
>>> mothers to provide their baby with breastmilk.
>
>> Hear here - they also allow other mothers to provide donor milk for
>> those few babies whose mothers are unable to do so.
>
> Before there were pumps, there were hands. And in most of the world
> they still work quite effectively. We North Americans are FAR too
> squeamish to do something so icky as actually manipulate our
> breasts...
I've read this over and over, but not yet seen any evidence for it.
Most of the pumping mums I know (hundreds, possibly more) use massage
and compressions to augment their pumping, and intermittently hand
express in certain situations - but find it far more time consuming
and inconvenient than hooking up handsfree so they can work, check
email, relax and read, or tend to their baby while they pump. In the
absence of demonstrable harm, I respect people's right to choose the
technology that works for them and gets their babies fed.
> And many have been convinced that a pump and bottle is EASIER
> than direct feeding.
I'm reasonably sure (though there is no research of which I'm aware)
that mums who choose to pump while never attempting to put their
babies to breast are dealing with issues most of us find it hard to
imagine. Certainly in pumping mums' circles, women who suggest that
they're considering this as an option are rapidly and thoroughly
informed of the practical issues and encouraged strongly to do
whatever they need to do to consider feeding their baby directly.
> The use of pumps for the situations of specific need, like prematurity
> and donation, are the exception.
There were the exact exceptions that the two posts you are quoting
and responding to were talking about.
> Here, over 80% of women initiate BF
> and most of them own a manual pump. That's close to market
> saturation.
> To increase sales, you have to change or add to the market niche. The
> pump companies have created a demand for pumps where no NEED exists.
In the USA, I would contend that pump companies, rather than feeding
a market manufactured by themselves, are filling a market niche
created by woman-hostile work practices and a complete dearth of
appropriate maternity related legislation, but that's a whole
different set of issues.
Lara Hopkins
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:56:16 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Linda Anderegg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pump company advertising
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The question of whether or not breast pumps are a valuable piece of
equipment is not the issue when discussing pump companies. My (and others')
concern is that their product promotion is bordering on aggressive and
unethical. I don't want to see it get to that point. There is tremendous
competition out there among the various manufacturers. We as lactation
professionals have a duty to remind them when we think their tactics are
unethical. We are the ones recommending their products to mothers so they
certainly do not want to be seen in a dim light by us. We have an
obligation to keep them honest as we do with the ABM manufacturers. Bravo
to Rachel Myr for writing her letter. I want to recommend a product because
it's the best one out there, not because I've been wined and dined and the
company has hired marketing experts to make me think that mothers can't
possibly survive without their particular product. So keep writing those
letters when you see something that's not right. Better still, write
letters when you see something ethical going on so it will keep going on.
They need feedback to plan the right marketing campaigns. I would rather
see their marketing dollars going into something like the Belly Balls than
glossy magazine ads and posters and having LCs doing their marketing trials
on unsuspecting mothers because they're sending us free pumps.
Linda Anderegg, RNC, IBCLC, RLC in Chicago
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:17:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Mirine Dye <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: research needed WHO Code
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I would suggest using the numerous studies and compiled information in =
the document from directly from WHO on this subject as it can apply to =
hospital settings. Specifically the 10 Steps, as it supports the Code =
and how hospitals can support the Code through the 10 Steps.=20
"This review summarizes studies related to each of the Ten Steps to =
Successful Breastfeeding and studies combining steps. As far as possible =
the authors included only experimental and quasi-experimental studies. =
The purpose of the document was to review the evidence for the efficacy =
of the "Ten Steps" and to provide a tool for advocacy and education. "
The section on infant formula, free samples and such is detailed with =
many cited studies.
World Health Organization. (1998). Evidence for the ten steps to =
successful breastfeeding (pp. 118): WHO
It is available in downloadable PDF format here:
http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-health/publications/NUTRITION/WHO_CHD=
_98.9.htm
Mirine R. Dye,
Community Doula, Childbirth and Lactation Educator
in the Rita-soaked Florida Keys and Key West
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:26:50 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karen Pogge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Perceived vs. real need for pumps
Dear Lara and others -
As a LLL Leader, I can tell you that one of our most common meeting
scenarios goes something like this: a pregnant woman attends for the first
time, listens to my opening remarks, and then begins with this
question: "What kind of pump do I need?". Not "why should I breastfeed
my baby?" or "how can I get breastfeeding off to a good start?" or any
other question that is in fact universal to all mothers. The perceieved
notion in my area, and in Western culture as far as I can tell, is that
ALL breastfeeding women need pumps, and they need the best one available
regardless of their situation, and they must have it BEFORE the baby
arrives. I know this has been discussed before on Lactnet, but I feel it
is so important to address, because I believe that advertising must play
some role in this perceived need. When women make a purchase at a
maternity store, or a baby store, or open just about any magazine aimed at
new parents, they are not just bombarded with ABM ads - they are also
bombarded with ads from pump companies. This "normalizes" expressing
breastmilk for them, and makes it appear that, of course if you plan to
breastfeed, then you must also have a pump and the associated gadgets.
When the above mom opens my support group meeting with the pump question,
I am very careful to ask her a LOT of questions about her situation, why
she feels she will need a pump, if she expects to be separated from her
baby and at what age and for how long, etc. Usually one of my wonderful,
long-time group moms will speak up about how she never needed a pump, and
another will chime in about the pump that she spent hundreds of dollars on
but never used. Of course I will supply this mom with pump and pumping
info. when warranted, but only after I make sure she understands the
basics of breastfeeding - and that a pump is generally not required, and
easily accessible (in my area, at least) if it turns out that one is
needed. Of course pumps have their place - and there are few women in
this world whom I admire more than those of you who have, for whatever
reason, exclusively pumped to provide EBM for your babies! But again - so
many moms just don't need this technology getting in the way of direct
breastfeeding. And here's one more vote for hand expression: I do not
know if it is a practical alternative for full-time expression, as I never
used it for this reason, but some women are pretty quick and efficient at
it - and for the mom who needs to express milk occasionally, it is an
easy, cost-effective method for relieving engorgement, leaving a bit of
EBM behind when mom is experiencing occasional separation from baby, etc.
A personal story: the few times I prepared early solids for my second
child and wanted to thin them out with my milk, I just leaned over the
bowl and expressed some milk in. My father-in-law, who lives next door
and is prone to wandering around our adjoining properties and entering our
house without knocking (that's another story!) peered in the window one
day as I was making some oatmeal for the baby. He backed away pretty
quickly - and later asked my husband when we were going to get curtains on
the windows! Unfortunately, that episode did not cure him of his "peeping
Tom" ways...
Karen Pogge, MD, LLLL, awaiting the birth of daughter #3 in eight weeks
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:55:52 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Margo Trueman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: My response to Christine Flowers
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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<<When my mother was young, it was considered improper for a pregnant
woman to appear in public. When I was young, you rarely saw disabled
people, like people with Down syndrome, in public. But attitudes have
changed, and attitudes toward nursing babies can change too. We just
need to keep the conversation going.>>
You know, I had never considered this. What a great spin to put on this
issue. There is hope that we can nurse our babies w/o having others
think we need to hide. Great letter!
Margo Trueman
LLL Leader
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:00:17 -0300
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jo-Anne Elder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: cluster pumping
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>
>
>A concept that has been brought up today by Carolyn Melcher at her "Birth
>and Beyond" training is the idea of "cluster pumping". If babies tend to
>"cluster feed" why not have moms "cluster pump"?
>
>Is it not possible - and probable - that mothers could maintain a milk
>supply, despite erratic scheduling, if WHEN they COULD pump - they pumped q
>30 to 45 minutes?
>
I think this is an interesting point, and that evidence may well be
found to validate the idea. If you consider that many mothers who are
pumping find they are able to pump more at different times of the day,
and that increasing the frequency of feedings seems to have more of an
impact than the length of feedings -- not sure of the research behind
this but it is certainly consistent with the experiences of many mothers
-- it would make sense that pumping the same number of times and the
same total number of minutes, but at varying intervals, might have the
same outcome for premies and others getting most of their nutrition from
pumped milk. I would suggest that for mothers who are supplementing
(providing less than half of the assessed weight gain from pumped) the
schedule could be much more variable. In that case, it's really just the
total number of ounces that count -- and some mothers can get enough at
the morning pumping to not be concerned with finding other
opportunities, while others have to stimulate the breasts more
frequently than the baby is doing or empty more of the breast every time
the baby has a small feeding.
There are times when it is it much easier for a mother to get to a pump
and a container -- when her baby isn't crying or fussy, for instance.
Karen Kerkhoff Gromada, who does such fine work with many mothers of
multiples, has often stated that mothers need to work out a pumping
schedule that is manageable for them. This is even more important if we
are expecting to create desire, motivation and satisfaction with
mothering rather than compliance. I may have missed several ounces
during the night, when I slept with my baby and nursed frequently, but
did not get up to pump, but if I hadn't done that I might have forgotten
what I was working towards, might have given up pumping earlier, etc.
Jo-Anne
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:17:47 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Beth Fitzpatrick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Breast-feeding in public
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Here's my "talkback" post in response to reaction to the article Pam sent a
link to earlier today
(http://onmilwaukee.com/family/articles/motherfest44.html?7538 ). I
haven't had time to read Ms. Flowers' article yet, but the "lay people" who
responded to the article I did were spouting things just as ridiculous,
apparently, so it's relevant.
Talkback:
"<http://onmilwaukee.com/family/articles/motherfest44.html>Motherfest:
Public breastfeeding, what's the big deal?"
mom2six
As a mom of six, I have nursed my babies anywhere and everywhere. Here are
a few points to consider:
1) If I hear one more time someone referring to public nursing as "whipping
it out" or comparing it to a man whipping out his penis, I am going to
scream. I have NEVER "whipped it out" and have only once in my life seen
such a careless display. If a mom and baby know what they are doing,
blanket or not, no one can even tell the breast is "whipped out". I never
used a blanket while nursing, public or not, and I looked no different to
an observer than a mom cradling her child! A woman who exposes her breast
in public for the second it takes for baby to latch on cannot in the
furthest stretch be compared to a man swinging his penis around during a
conversation. What an idiot the person who said that is.
2) For breast-feeding advocates to say that public nursing "should be" no
different than public bottle-feeding is a bit ridiculous. I am an advocate,
obviously, but I'm trying to focus the issue here. Of course it is
different. The debate about nursing in public is not about the benefits of
breast milk (that's a whole other argument). It is about people feeling
uncomfortable seeing a thin segment of skin when the part below it is in
baby's mouth. Of course people don't feel uncomfortable seeing a bottle in
a baby's mouth. Right or wrong, the issue is that people, even some
breast-feeding mothers, unfortunately, see the breast as something sexual.
Let's face it; a bottle serves one purpose only. Breast serve two. It is a
wasted argument to go on and on about how feeding a baby is what they were
made for. They are also a sexual feature, and the same women who
breast-feed their children and advocate for it enjoy having breast as part
of their sexiness. Women who have to have mastectomies do not mourn loosing
their breasts because they've lost a food source. Let's not combine
arguments. We advocates can't prove a point by pounding in our point of
view and ignoring that there are legitimate issues to work through.
3) I think anyone would agree, if they are honest, that a shrieking child
gets very nerve-racking, very quickly. The same people who are so mortified
when a woman sits down WHEREVER to nurse their baby would be the ones to
GLARE at said mother if she didn't do "something" to calm the child. What
are we mom's to do? We are expected to leave in the middle of whatever we
are doing to feed and/or comfort the baby through nursing. We are expected
to leave if the child is screaming and disturbing the people around us.
Shall we stay home, barefoot and pregnant?
5) I wonder what the reaction would be if new moms Britney Spears or Heidi
Klum sat down on a mall bench to breast-feed their babies. Hmm......(by the
way, Heidi did breast-feed her last baby, who is 16 months old and will be
nursing this one!)
6) For the people who try to argue that public breast-feeding is an
invasion of the rights of others around you, I wonder if you also consider
it an invasion if someone comes up and blows a mouth-full of cig. smoke in
your or your child's face. If you consider it the same, what a shame. A
baby nursing does not negatively impact the well-being of ANYONE around
them. If you don't consider it the same, good for you, and then think more
carefully about calling public nursing an "invasion of my space and rights".
Like others have said, if you don't like what you see, don't look. In MOST
cases, women are overly discreet, as they should be in a society where
people have nothing better to do than gauk. In Italy, there are not "nude
beaches". Sprawled out across EVERY beach are topless women. No one bats an
eye. No one stares. Bare breasts are normal there. They are just another
part of the female body. For societal change to occur, people have to allow
for the "radicals" to do what they do (as long as it does not physically
hurt others) until it is considered normal. Just think, in some countries
women still can't even show their face. We've come a long way here. Let's
not live in the dark, oppressed ages!
Beth, mom of six, including a 22 month old who still nurses anywhere she
needs or wants to without making a scene. A life-saver on a recent 6 hour
flight!!!
"When in despair, remember that all through history the way of truth and
love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time
they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall." Gandhi
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:51:06 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Naomi Bar-Yam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: mourning mastectomies
Comments: To: Beth Fitzpatrick <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On Sep 20, 2005, at 11:17 AM, LACTNET automatic digest system wrote:
> Women who have to have mastectomies do not mourn loosing
> their breasts because they've lost a food source.
I think that young, as yet childless women who have mastectomies, do
mourn the loss of a food source. Unfortunately, this is occurring
more and more frequently, but that's another topic for another time.
Naomi Bar-Yam
--------------------------------
Naomi Bar-Yam Ph.D.
[log in to unmask]
Researcher, Writer, Educator
in Maternal and Child Health
--------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:00:46 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Dianne Oliver <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Playtex bottle vs human breast
Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi Phyllis,
I know what you're saying about artificial infant feeding being the norm in
many people's minds. I believe, however, that people like the woman who
wrote that piece really DO know, deep down, that breastfeeding is where
it's at, and, if she's being honest with herself, she'll *get* my
point. Getting my point won't necessarily change the type of opinion
pieces she writes to get a rise out of her readership, but the truth won't
be lost on her.... a seed will have been planted. I always trust in those
seeds and their potential to germinate at some point in the future! :-)
You're exactly right about the more people take respond to her suggestion
to cover up and go to the restroom or some other hidden place to nurse, the
more artificial feeding remains the norm. That's why I shout it from the
rooftops at our LLL meetings and to moms I counsel, to nurse whenever and
wherever they are. Society needs to see this.
BTW, I see you're from Lowell. We recently moved to California from
Wrentham, MA (down by Foxboro, near Gillette Stadium)!
Thanks for taking the time to write,
Dianne Oliver, MA (Holistic Counseling Psych- Lesley College, Cambridge,
MA), LLLL, IBCLC
Simi Valley, CA
At 08:44 AM 9/20/2005 -0700, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>Diane,
>They just don't get it. In the past I heard our office 'know it all'
>(RE:
>infant feeding) remark that some woman was using her breast like a
>pacifier. I had to speak up like you did in your letter. The artificial
>method is the everyday norm to most. The diseases are the everyday norm
>to most, including many HCP. When will they realize that most of us
>over 80, 70, even 60 (men and women) have seen nursing moms as the norm
>when we were younger. The more we cover our babies & hide in the bath
>room (uck) the more the germ infested Playtex bottle half full of formula
>is going to be the norm.
>Regards,
>P.Harris-Swenson, MA, IBCLC
>Nutritionist
>Still behind E- mail!
>Lowell, MA USA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Holistic Lactation
805-582-2058
www.holisticlactation.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:18:18 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Mari E Douma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BF in public
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There was a supportive voice for breastfeeding in public in the Lansing
State Journal (Michigan) on 9-3-05. I wrote an opinion piece that they
published. Unfortunately, it's been archived and not available free on the
web anymore :(
Mari Douma, DO
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:55:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Pam Hirsch, RN, BSN, CLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Perceived vs Real Need for Pumps
Hi, Karen: Amen! to everything you said! As an aside, you must have a
stronger back than me because I used to bring the custard cup of cereal up
to my breast while hand-expressing milk into it. A few squirts, a quick
mix with the spoon, maybe a few more squirts and mix until you hit the
right consistency!
To further comment on moms NEEDING breast pumps. I like to put it to a
mother this way. We strive for the ideal in all areas of our lives. We
strive for the perfect body, for perfect health, the perfect job, the
perfect house, the perfect lifestyle. Why should we view breastfeeding any
differently? The IDEAL breastfeeding experience is EXCLUSIVE breastfeeding
with the baby at the breast. I ask the mother to place the ideal
breastfeeding experience up before herself and strive towards that goal,
just like she strives towards other goals in her life. Now, depending on
her particular lifestyle, she can decide how close to the ideal she can
get. If she is a stay-at-home mom who never goes out, or on the rare
occasions she does go out but has her baby with her, she can continue the
ideal of exclusive breastfeeding. If she is a working mom who must be away
from baby on a regular basis, then she will be doing the pumping/feeding
EBM route, but ONLY for the feedings she is gone for. When she is with her
baby she reverts back to the ideal of exclusive breastfeeding. If a stay-
at-home mom wants to go out on occasion without her baby, then she uses a
pump (or my preference - hand expression) and bottles. By the way, I went
back to work full-time (not by choice, but necessity) with all 3 of my
children and NEVER used a pump. I hand expressed for all 3. So it is
certainly possible. One handy piece of equipment I did use, which Medela
no longer makes, is a hand expression funnel. I double-hand expressed by
placing 2 bottles with the funnels attached on my desk and hand-expressed
simultaneously into them. I usually had 4-6 ounces of milk in less than 10
minutes.
We need to emphasize as much exclusive breastfeeding as is realistic within
a mother's particular lifestyle. It really bothers me that so many women
out there think that they cannot successfully breastfeed without the best
and most expensive pump/equipment on the market. And a woman feels really
empowered when she finds that she has successfully, exclusively nursed her
baby up to and in many instances, beyond her original goal, without
the "help" of gadgets. Just her breasts and her baby, just like Mother
Nature intended!
Pam Hirsch, RN,BSN,CLC
Clinical Lead, Lactation Services
Advocate Good Shepherd Hospital
Barrington, IL USA
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:01:18 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Eng <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: how many minutes to pump
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I am one of those IBCLCs who tell moms not to pump beyond 20 minutes unless
they are still dripping milk. And here's why: I have heard many times from
moms who try to pump for an hour on maximum suction 2-3 times in 24 hours.
Guess who has sore, cracked and bleeding nipples? And it doesn't seem to
make more milk because they complain that even though they are pumping for
an hour they still only get 1-2 ounces total of two sides. They say the milk
spray is finished at around 10 minutes time. Their second complaint is that
it takes too long to get that 1-2 ounces, and it hurts so they quit
altogether.
I watch alot of moms use the pump and when the milk stops dripping, the
comfort level seems to decrease and moms say it hurts. Even when using low
suction. Without good research to say moms should continue pumping after the
flow stops and when it begins to get painful, I am hesitant to suggest more
time after 15-20 minutes. When I do get moms to increase the number of times
they pump in 24 hours, their supply usually increases after a few days.
If something unusual is working for a particular mom, I do encourage her to
follow her own ideas!
Kathy Eng, BSW, IBCLC
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:15:45 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jane Ciaramella <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: My Response to Christine Flowers
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Chris,
That was such a well written and powerful letter. Great job!
Jane Ciaramella
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:49:08 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Seema Karki <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Vit k to bbabies.
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Thank you for responding my question about bedside accucheck on babies.
Dear lactnet fellows
when do you guys give inj Vit k to your babies.
in my hospital we have to given within an hour.
I was reading AAP guidliens, they say within 6hr.
wanted to know your prat ices.
thanx........
Seema Karki,RN
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:56:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
From: Lee Galasso <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: NEWS: BREAST FEEDING STILL BEST,
DESPITE ENVIRONMENTAL CHEMICALS IN HUMAN MILK
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I just received the below message from Julia Block and thought it
appropriate to forward to our list serve, especially after reading
>>From: Pam Jaiswal <[log in to unmask]>
Article on dioxins:
http://www.foodconsumer.org/777/8/Diet_and_Dioxins_The_Need_to_Cut_Back.
shtml
I was very disturbed by it.<<
-----Original Message-----
From: (Lactation Information Network) On Behalf Of Julia Ann Dlhopolsky
Block
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:19 AM
Julia D. Block, CAPT, MC, USNR
Pediatric Clinic
Halyburton Naval Hospital
PSC 8023
Cherry Point, NC 28533
252-466-0225 (W)
252-466-0159 (FAX)
Julia D. Block, MD, MPH, FAAP (CAPT, MC, USNR)
Clinical Instructor, Department of Pediatrics, Mount Sinai School of
Medicine
AAP New York 2 Chapter Breastfeeding Coordinator
AMSUS Representative, United States Breastfeeding Committee (USBC)
La Leche International (LLLI) Peer Counselor Program Administrator and
Medical Associate
314 Plymouth Avenue
Brightwaters, NY 11718
H: 631-666-6515
FOR YOUR INFORMATION ONLY--THIS MESSAGE AND ANY ATTACHMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN
REVIEWED OR APPROVED BY THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS OR BY THE SECTION
ON BREASTFEEDING.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, Sept. 19, 2005
MEDIA INQUIRIES CONTACT:
Amy Buehler Stranges (717) 531-8606 e-mail: [log in to unmask]
INTERNATIONAL PANEL PROVIDES POLICY AND SCIENCE GUIDANCE:
BREAST-FEEDING STILL BEST DESPITE ENVIRONMENTAL CHEMICALS IN HUMAN MILK
Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health devotes September issue
to Workshop
HERSHEY, PA-The presence of environmental chemicals in human milk does
not necessarily indicate health risks for infants, according to an
international panel led by Cheston M. Berlin, Jr., M.D., University
professor of pediatrics and professor of pharmacology, and Judy S.
LaKind, Ph.D., adjunct associate professor of pediatrics, Penn State
College of Medicine, Penn State Children's Hospital at Penn State Milton
S. Hershey Medical Center. Few, if any, adverse effects have been
documented as being associated with consumption of human milk containing
background levels of environmental chemicals, and none have been
clinically or epidemiologically demonstrated.
The Second Workshop on Human Milk Surveillance and Biomonitoring for
Environmental Chemicals in the United States gathered a panel of experts
(representing academia, industry, nonprofit organizations and the
federal government) in September 2004 at Penn State Hershey Medical
Center, Hershey, Pa. The Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health
published workshop findings this month (September 2005, volume 68,
number 20).
"We strongly emphasize that the mere presence of an environmental
chemical in human milk does not indicate that a health risk exists for
breast-fed infants," Berlin said. "All information gathered to date
supports the positive health value of breast-feeding for infants."
The workshop explored issues related to the use of human milk
biomonitoring for environmental chemicals (including a wide range of
chemicals to which women may be exposed - industrial chemicals,
chemicals in personal care and home/yard products, pharmaceuticals, and
recreational and illicit drugs) for understanding human exposure and
health, and evaluating and communicating possible human health risk.
Milk biomonitoring is a non-invasive method that provides information on
levels of environmental chemicals in the body.
The 2004 expert panel noted "From a public health perspective, it is
critical to consider the tools needed to conduct human milk
biomonitoring without negatively impacting the already low
breast-feeding rates."
"Breast-feeding is widely accepted internationally as the gold standard
for infant feeding and has unparalleled advantages for both infants and
mothers," said Berlin, chair of the workshop. "Advantages for infants
include protection from infectious disease, optimal growth including
neurodevelopment, and possible protection from certain diseases later in
life. It is important to preserve breast-feeding as the best nutrition
for infants."
Four areas were explored: human milk research designed to answer
questions about health; exposure assessment issues; human health risk
assessment; and methods for facilitating human milk research.
"Because human milk provides information on exposures of both the
mother and infant, studies on associations with health outcomes for both
the mother and infant are possible" LaKind, president of LaKind
Associates, LLC, said. "One of the points we've tried to make clear is
that you cannot present risk-benefit information in a vacuum," she said.
"That's why we also recommend looking at infant formulas and the
chemicals in the water used to make the formulas. An example of this is
the potential effects on infants from phytoestrogens - plant compounds
with estrogenic activity - in soy-based formulas. In addition, the focus
of most human milk biomonitoring studies has been on persistent,
bioaccumulative compounds such as PCBs. Little work has been done on
shorter-lived chemicals such as volatile chemicals or on chemicals in
personal care products."
This 2004 workshop was a follow-up of the first workshop (2002): an
international panel that met at Penn State College of Medicine in
Hershey.
The 2004 panel identified a number of recommendations for future
surveillance and research, including:
* Determining levels of environmental chemicals found in human milk and
infant formula (including water used to prepare formulas and chemicals
from synthetic nipples and bottles), with special attention given to
those women who may have greater than background exposure;
* Identifying human biomarkers of exposure, susceptibility, and effects
to predict potential human health risks associated with specific
environmental chemicals in human milk and infant formula;
* Developing methods to analyze the risks and benefits to infants and
children exposed to environmental chemicals and endogenous chemicals via
breast-feeding and/or formula-feeding;
* Evaluating the usefulness of human milk biomonitoring in identifying
agents most likely to be associated with breast disease;
* Researching levels of environmental chemicals in human milk that may
occur through occupational exposures;
* Creating an Internet-based database for recording levels of
environmental chemicals reported in human milk and infant formula in a
standardized manner, with interpretation.
The workshop was supported by the American Chemistry Council; the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; the Department of Health and
Human Services Health Resources and Service Administration; Health
Canada; 3M Corporation; Penn State College of Medicine; Research
Foundation for Health and Environmental Effects; the U.S. Environmental
Protection Agency Office of Children's Health.
I apologize for the length of the above but I thought it important.
Lee Galasso, MS, IBCLC, RLC
Lactation Specialist
Westchester County, NY State
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:01:22 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Rachel Myr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Self expression - long
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Had to smile at the post from Karen Pogge, on how she handles it when a
first timer at a LLL group opens by asking what kind of pump she needs.
This was my one and only question to the poor LLL leader I phoned in Seattle
when I was going back to finish nursing school after having 6 months off
during which I exclusively breastfed my daughter AND found a friend with a
baby the exact same age who was happy to breastfeed her while she cared for
her in my absence. The answer I got was 'Now, why would you need a pump?
You're not going to LEAVE YOUR BABY, are you?'. That was the extent of my
contact with LLL until joining this list in 1999, actually, and learned that
there is great diversity among leaders, and that things have changed since
1981. I ended up with a cylinder pump that I used a very few times, but
discovered that it was much easier for me to hand express because I was so
unaccustomed to having a plastic flange on my breast that I had great
trouble eliciting a MER. When I expressed by hand I could do both breasts
at once, and I didn't have to carry any major equipment as long as I could
locate a clean cup and had something to store it in.
Add to that the fact that my daughter just thought it was weird to drink
milk any other way than from the breast, and I was lucky enough to be able
to visit her once during the day in between clinical site and school, and I
really didn't need to express often. I didn't realize at the time just how
lucky I was; my worst obstacle was my instructor in public health nursing
who loudly and repeatedly shared her views on my continuing to breastfeed
even though my baby was over 6 months old - she had fed her children for 3
months each and that was MORE THAN ENOUGH. She used our group meetings with
the other students in my clinical group to emphasize how unnecessary she
felt my breastfeeding was. I thought she was full of c*** and just ignored
it. It helps to be born uppity. Or maybe I got that way from being
breastfed for more than 6 months myself.
Just recently I worked with a mother who needed to express to save her milk
supply, which was suffering because of her baby's inefficient suckling. She
said she had started pumping after feeds, and I asked her what kind of pump
she was using, and she said 'Oh, I just hand pump! I don't like those
machines, they don't work for me.' She meant she was hand expressing, and
she was getting about 2 ounces every time she did it. This was a mother who
loves breastfeeding and has breastfed other children and was not about to
watch her milk supply dwindle and disappear before she is good and ready to
stop, which won't be this year, anyway. But it is rare indeed that I meet a
mother who knows how to hand express and prefers it to using a pump if she
wants to leave milk for her baby at some point.
That said, I am well aware that having a good, comfortable and effective
pump has been a boon to many mothers whose babies for whatever reason are
not able to breastfeed some or all of the time. I urge mothers to get hold
of one if they need them and I suggest they check out information on
exclusively pumping if they need to do that, because there are so many
inventive mothers whose ideas really help. But where I am, mothers react
quite negatively to pumping for more than a couple of weeks. They want to
breastfeed, not be milked by machine. Hope it stays that way for the rest
of my career!
Rachel Myr
Kristiansand, Norway
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:13:55 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: environmental contaminants in human milk
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Dear Friends:
Michel Odent makes the point that the biggest place for babies to pick
up loads of various contaminants is during gestation.
Research from Holland and other countries shows that breastfed babies
are still developmentally above artificially-fed babies, even when both are
full of pollutants.
I wish the world's energy was put into reducing and eliminating
polluting activities and eliminating the use of toxic chemicals, instead of debating
if breastfeeding is alright. Pollution affects all of us, young and old, and
is the real problem.....health comes from clean air, clean water, and clean
soil that grows us good and pure food.
warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCE
Maternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and University
Film Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactation
www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:48:19 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Dianne Oliver <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Karo Syrup ad 1952
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Hi All,
On a lighter (or sweeter, or grosser, depending on how you look at it....)
note, I bought a little booklet for my brother's birthday entitled "1952:
Remember When....A Nostalgic Look Back in Time." In it is a big ad for
Karo Syrup (for those of you who may not know Karo Syrup, it's basically a
thickened sweetener used for baking).
It has a picture of a baby maybe about a year old standing up hoisting a
barbell in one hand with a book in another that's entitled "How to Grow Big
and Strong" The caption next to the picture states "....Mom knows it's a
fine quick-energy food for growing children....and all us youngsters love it!"
The ad goes on to read "Most mothers know that doctors prescribe Karo for
the feeding of babies.... Isn't it reasonable that serving Karo Syrup to
older children is equally beneficial? In fact, you should start right
after the bottle-feeding period...when it's up to you to form baby's good
eating habits."
I kid you not, this is what it said- "good eating habits!!"
I recall seeing in my own baby book (I was born in 1960) that my "formula"
consisted of some mix of Karo Syrup and who-knows-what- else. Yoweee- it's
a wonder I'm not diabetic!
~Dianne Oliver, LLLL, IBCLC
Simi Valley, CA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Holistic Lactation
805-582-2058
www.holisticlactation.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:01:02 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Karo Syrup ad 1952
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, Dianne Oliver wrote:
> The ad goes on to read "Most mothers know that doctors prescribe Karo
> for the feeding of babies.... Isn't it reasonable that serving Karo
> Syrup to older children is equally beneficial? In fact, you should
> start right after the bottle-feeding period...when it's up to you to
> form baby's good eating habits."
>
> I kid you not, this is what it said- "good eating habits!!"
Oh, of course... there was always Karo Syrup in the house when I was a
kid. I was born in 1955, and my baby book contains the prescription pad
sheet on which our family doc wrote out my "formula"... it consisted of
evaporated milk, Karo Syrup and Poly-Vi-Sol vitamin drops. Doesn't that
just sound YUMMY? Blech.
> I recall seeing in my own baby book (I was born in 1960) that my
> "formula" consisted of some mix of Karo Syrup and who-knows-what- else.
> Yoweee- it's a wonder I'm not diabetic!
Well, I'm hypoglycemic, fat, nearsighted and have scoliosis... isn't that
bad enough? ;)
Cee
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:08:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Micky Jones, LLL Leader, CLE, CLD, CHBI" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pregnant with cancer
Hello wise ones,
I have an aquaintence suffering with cancer during her pregnancy. She is
currently undergoing treatment with Taxol and Carboplatinum (which I think
is the same as carboplatin - awating confirmation). So far it looks like she
will get her last chemo treatment 7 weeks before her scheduled 34 week
c-section. She has been told when she wakes from surgery she can
breastfeeding (or she is under that impression). Anyhow, she says they do
want to do two more chemo treatments after that but she does not and is
prepared to fight them in order to be able to breastfeed her baby. She is
even up for pumping and dumping if necessary.
My question: Does anyone know how long she has to wait before breastfeeding
after each Chemo treatment? She has been told 1 month. That is a long time
to pump and dump. I have Hale's book but do not understand all the half life
stuff and don't know what is the proper amount of time to wait before
breastfeeding again.
Thank you,
micky jones
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:09:14 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: how many minutes to pump
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Where I've landed is to generally recommended 10-15 minutes, maybe 20, of
double pumping, or until the milk stops, whichever comes last. So many
mothers think that fewer long pumpings a day will do the trick over more
frequency, but they are wrong. The real key if they are trying to maintain
or increase supply is frequency. You can have two women pumping the same
number of minutes a day but broken down into different frequencies and
durations; the one with the greater frequency with quite likely have the
best long term yield.
I also tell moms who don't have enough milk that if the milk stops at 3 or 5
or 10 minutes, to close their eyes and keep going. Why? Because they need
that extra stimulation for the milk supply. It's not only about removing
milk and emptying the breast, it's also about stimulation. When you are
inducing milk production, it all starts by sucking or pumping on a dry
breast, right? And we do it often to encourage more milk. I see the
principle as the same. Most babies breastfeed 20-40 in the early weeks,
somewhere around there, and we want to duplicate that and translate it into
the double pumping regimen.
It also is always wise to look at the big picture and the context of the
situation, and what we are aiming for when making recommendations-- of
course!
~Lisa
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:11:35 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cheri Casciola <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: looking for LC in Pittsburg
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Hi - I'm currently no mail - but in dire need of an LC in the Pittsburg
area. I'm needing to connect a mom who may have gigantomastia/macromastia with
an LC who is willing to work with mom and myself, as I'm in Chandler, AZ.
This is a condition I've experienced so can help out w/ first hand
information, etc.
Please email privately to: [log in to unmask] (make sure the o is the
letter o and not a zero, or I won't get it.)
Thank you!
Cheri Casciola, IBCLC, RLC
Chandler, AZ
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:13:22 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pumping for a premie
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Kate Sharp has been recommending cluster pumping to moms who need to
increase their milk supplies for several years now. I use slightly
different language, but encourage moms that they don't have to pump at
regular intervals, and if they "miss" a pumping, to pump more often (up
to about every 45 mins or so) to make up for it. This has helped moms of
premies a lot. If they have to drive in NYC traffic to go visit their
baby, and then drive home, they might go without pumping for a long
time. I also recommend ultra frequent pumping (superpumping or
powerpumping) for several days for moms with low supplies. It seems to
really help.
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC NYC
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:19:35 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lisa Marasco IBCLC <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: I'm a grandma!
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Okay, I can't resist! I am a grandma for the very first time as of last
Thursday. My oldest son and his bride of 15 mos had a little girl, Alexis
Kristina Marasco, 7#8, born September 15 in Orange CA. Alexis is a champion
nurser and momma has plentiful milk. I am enjoying watching my son and
daughter-in-law blossom into their new roles. Channyn has always loved
babies and has done a lot of baby sitting so she is a natural, but to see my
son Chris, all 6'3 of him, scoop up his little girl and say, "MY baby!" and
kiss her and hug her and hold her and call her princess, well, that's
priceless. I helped momma through the first night because Alexis has a bit
of the normal receding chin and momma's breasts are full and the nipples are
not terribly prominent and she kept slipping and missing, but it never took
more than 60 seconds and they caught on quickly and haven't looked back
since. The other grandma is a first-timer too, so this little one is in for
it.
All big smiles here,
Lisa
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:19:37 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pregnant with cancer
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Dear Friends:
I have never heard of a pregnant woman being treated with chemotherapy
for cancer. Is this something new?
warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCE
Maternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and University
Film Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactation
www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:33:01 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Denise Fisher <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: cancer drugs and half life
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Ricky it takes approximately 5 half-lives for a drug to clear the system.
If the drug you are looking up has a half-life of, say, 4 hours, then 20
hours after taking the last dose the levels should be undetectable.
Regarding this mother and her unique situation though I would be inclined
to speak with Dr Hale and her oncologist.
Good luck
Keep us informed how she gets on.
Denise
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Denise Fisher
Health e-Learning
http://www.health-e-learning.com
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:54:16 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Corrine Flatt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: Breast feeding
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This is from my dad! =20
He gave me permission to share with you.
=3D )
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dennis Kesner=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: FW: Breast feeding
I am a 60 year old father of two and grandfather of 6 (soon to be 7), =
all but one of whom were breastfed. The one not breast fed did not =
survive long enough to be able to delight in that experience. I find =
your article to be offensive and really illogical for an attorney.
Comparing the right to breast feed in public to smoking or urinating in =
public is obscene. Smoking or urinating in public poses a significant =
health hazard. Breast feeding is just the opposite, It poses significant =
health benefits for the infant and, if recent research can be believed, =
for the mother too.=20
Should the mother have asked you if you minded? Probably, but to =
relegate breast feeding to public restrooms (which are largely very =
unsanitary places) or back rooms or vacant rooms is absurd. Breast =
feeding is a natural process as God intended. He did not give women =
breasts to be ornaments for prurient interests. That purpose was =
invented solely by man.=20
Breastfeeding should be celebrated and encouraged for the health of the =
mother, the infant, and society in general. It should not discouraged by =
making it some shameful thing that needs to be hidden.
Dennis Kesner
Proud Father and Grandfather
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:13:22 -0700
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From: Ellen Kadden <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: pumping for a prem
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I believe it was June who asked recently about the
correct quantity of milk a mom should be pumping for a
premie.
There are dozens of factors that feed into this, but
please let us not forget that the pump is not a baby.
I often explain to moms that we are trying to fool the
body into thinking that the baby is there stimulating
it, and the milk is a bonus.Some things we need to
know:
is this a first baby?
How soon after birth did mom start pumping? How many
times the first day? At night, too? If not, when did
she start pumping at night?
What kind of pump is she using?
Is she eating during the day? Does she have any
appetite? Is she drinking?
I am a lactation consultant and LLL leader with lots
of experience with moms who pump for all kinds of
reason, and pumped myself for a 25-week premie almost
20 years ago. I usually suggest that moms not spend
more than 15 minutes with a pump at one time. Because
you can hurt yourself if you do-not just the nipple,
but back in the ducts. I also suggest that moms can
try: pumping at the hospital in front of or with the
baby, hand massage before pumping, pumping frequently
for slightly shorter periods of time (like the
"cluster pumping already described), visualization,
and keeping a piece of the baby's clothing close while
pumping. They also may want to call the hospital to
check on the baby or keep a picture of the baby in
front of the pump.
Let us not forget that pumping for a premie, and as a
matter of fact just having a premie, is hard work,
added on to the other duties of a mom. Milk yield
often decreases when there is "bad news" from the
nurses, when the mother is not sleeping or eating
well, or due to other stresses. Skin-to-skin care,
and some mothering of the mother can help, but this is
a tough issue. And honestly, while we can discuss
"optimal yield" on day 10, it varies so much that it's
important that we stay optomistic with the mom and
continue to encourage her in her efforts.
Best of luck to your mom
Ellen Kadden, M.A., IBCLC, LLLL
and mom to 3 grown up, no longer breastfeeding children
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:40:32 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Beth Fitzpatrick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mourning mastectomies
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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To clarify, I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my statement. I
was just trying to make a point, in that forum. I'm sure that the
unfortunate young women who must loose one or both of their breasts also
mourn the fact that they will not be able to breast-feed their infants (in
the case of both being taken). I was just pointing out that breasts are a
part of being women, and while they were created to provide nourishment, it
is silly to argue that that is the only "value" that should be placed on
them. On issues like public breast-feeding, we have to deal with society
where they're at, not the ideal. I apologize to anyone who may have been
hurt by that particular statement. I cannot begin to imagine what those
women must go through!
Beth F.
"When in despair, remember that all through history the way of truth and
love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time
they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall." Gandhi
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:25:20 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Seema Karki <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breastfeeding-Associated Neonatal Hypernatremia May Be Missed
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here something to think about.
Today's article.
Breastfeeding-Associated Neonatal Hypernatremia May Be Missed
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/512385?src=mp
Perform selfless service to the poor, the sick, and the needy without thought of reward or fame.
Love all Serve all
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:55:11 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: mvance12 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Daily News response
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I was told my letter will be running on Thurs. Chris Mulford's was much
better than mine--I'm keeping hers for the future. ;-) I couldn't see
straight when I was typing, so it's not my best effort. I did manage to stay
fairly civil.
Melissa Vance
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:53:58 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anabel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cite for FLowers reply/info
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:12:51 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karleen Gribble <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: how many minutes to pump
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Lisa,
Where you've landed is basically where I am too, although in cases of
relactation/induced lactation I tend more towards 20-30 mins as the aim
because the nipple stim is so important. I also see women who want to pump
less frequently and for longer to make up for not doing it through the
day....there was one mum who pumped 2x a day for an hour each, amazingly she
did make a small amount of milk.
The power pumping idea that Lara described is also something I think is
worth exploring and some mums may go to bed with the pump for a day and pump
every 30 mins all day (a bit like the babymoon so often suggested) and this
can also have a big impact.
Karleen Gribble
Australia
>Where I've landed is to generally recommended 10-15 minutes, maybe 20, of
> double pumping, or until the milk stops, whichever comes last. So many
> mothers think that fewer long pumpings a day will do the trick over more
> frequency, but they are wrong. The real key if they are trying to maintain
> or increase supply is frequency. You can have two women pumping the same
> number of minutes a day but broken down into different frequencies and
> durations; the one with the greater frequency with quite likely have the
> best long term yield.
>
> I also tell moms who don't have enough milk that if the milk stops at 3 or
5
> or 10 minutes, to close their eyes and keep going. Why? Because they need
> that extra stimulation for the milk supply. It's not only about removing
> milk and emptying the breast, it's also about stimulation. When you are
> inducing milk production, it all starts by sucking or pumping on a dry
> breast, right? And we do it often to encourage more milk. I see the
> principle as the same. Most babies breastfeed 20-40 in the early weeks,
> somewhere around there, and we want to duplicate that and translate it
into
> the double pumping regimen.
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:07:40 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Micky Jones, LLL Leader" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pregnant with cancer
Comments: To: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Well, they told her that the drugs she would be given would not cross the
placenta.....but in Hale they Pregnancy rating C (Carboplatin) and D(Taxol)
so I don't know why they told her that. Since she is getting a hysterectomy
at the birth, this is her last biological baby.
Any ideas if and when she can breastfeed after surgery? She will have an
epidural for the birth and then be put under for the rest of the surgery.
Seems like a lot of drugs. I would suggest donor milk (either banked or from
a friend) even though our hospitals here - even the children's hospital
"don't do that" but if not could the baby survive on sugar water till mom
is awake enough to breastfeed? It may be several hours. I know they will be
getting pressure to feed the baby something.
thanks,
micky
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:30:51 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Margo Trueman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: pregnant with cancer
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I don't have any experience with your situation, however, my son was put
on life support and airlifted to another hospital within a few hours of
birth. It was probably 12 hours post partum by the time I left the
hospital (AMA) and got in the car and drove the 3 hours to the hospital
he was at. We didn't expect him to live and I wanted to be holding him
when he died, so I would guess it was 36 hours post partum by the time
we realized he was out of danger and I got to the pumping room to get
colostrum for him. During that time he had an IV and received something
called TPN - not entirely sure what this is; I'm sure one of the RNs on
the list could enlighten us. I know it's nutrition for him but am not
sure what all it has in it (i.e. sugar etc.). I know that it was about
6 hours from the time he was born until he arrived at the NICU and
received TPN. So my guess would be if it's just a few hours between
when the baby is born and when she is able to breastfeed that she could
safely refuse sugar water or formula for the baby. This is only based
on my own experience with my child and also I've had a friend who had
two emergency C-sections where she had general anesthesia since she
didn't have an epidural during labour. Both times it was about 8 hours
post partum when she finally saw her babies and both times the babies
were given NOTHING while in the Nursery, at her request (not even
pacifiers). They waited for mum to be able to safely breastfeed.
Hopefully this will be the case for this mom that you are helping.
Margo Trueman
LLL Leader
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:33:38 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karen Pogge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: self-expression
Rachel -
Glad to hear that your impression of LLL Leaders has been favorably
changed! I spend a fair amount of my time trying to undo the negative
stereotypes that some people have of LLL. And yes, Leaders do vary widely
in their experiences and ways of handling situations - just as we all do in
most areas of life. I am usually both pleased and saddened when I hear
from someone that they were surprised at how welcoming and accepting our
LLL Group is - I wish all Groups would really strive to meet moms where
they are.
I do have to tell you, your comment about perhaps being uppity because you
were breastfed for more than six months concerns me, since my two long-term
BF daughters really don't need any more reasons to be uppity! : )
Karen Pogge, MD, LLLL in NY
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:20:37 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Laura Beth Kerr Gilman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I'm a grandma!
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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What a wonderful story to read this evening!!! Congratulations to you all!
Laura Beth Gilman
LLL Leader
Katonah, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Lactation Information and Discussion
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lisa Marasco IBCLC
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: I'm a grandma!
Okay, I can't resist! I am a grandma for the very first time as of last
Thursday. My oldest son and his bride of 15 mos had a little girl, Alexis
Kristina Marasco, 7#8, born September 15 in Orange CA. Alexis is a champion
nurser and momma has plentiful milk. I am enjoying watching my son and
daughter-in-law blossom into their new roles. Channyn has always loved
babies and has done a lot of baby sitting so she is a natural, but to see my
son Chris, all 6'3 of him, scoop up his little girl and say, "MY baby!" and
kiss her and hug her and hold her and call her princess, well, that's
priceless. I helped momma through the first night because Alexis has a bit
of the normal receding chin and momma's breasts are full and the nipples are
not terribly prominent and she kept slipping and missing, but it never took
more than 60 seconds and they caught on quickly and haven't looked back
since. The other grandma is a first-timer too, so this little one is in for
it.
All big smiles here,
Lisa
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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:40:00 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Annie VerSteeg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hand mitts and breastfeeding
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I am finding these posts very interesting because I ALWAYS want to
swaddle the newborns' hands out of the way during feeds for most of
the first few weeks. Depending on the baby it may be months. Why???
Because many of these babies have been thru incredibly stressful
labors, filled with pitocin, epidurals, vacuum extractions, prolonged
first and second stages, sometimes to end up with a c-section that
should have been performed in the first 18 hours, instead of the 24th
or 30th hour. These babies need their parents and skin to skin
contact but I find for feedings and sleep periods they respond better
to the safe feeling of a swaddle. I don't think newborns have a clue
that those hands flailing around are theirs, only that something is
hitting them and getting in their way and they wish it would stop.
Most of these babies have been thru so much there is no way they can
multi-task with any sort of success. I want to make their experience
at the breast as pleasant and EASY as possible so they are able to
have a great latch, start to gain weight, and find their place in
their new environment. What about these new moms? Isn't it part of
our jobs to make this as easy as possible? When is enough enough? How
many moms do you hear say, "Oh, her hands are always in the way"?
When all is calm and comfy, I am the first one to encourage skin to
skin contact. A nap on mommy or partners' chest is a great way to
start. But when the stress level is at a 10.. I say pick your battles
carefully, as we all know as parents, it is just the first of
thousands of little battles along the way to adulthood. That does
come right???
Annie VerSteeg IBCLC
Mom of 2 teenagers:)
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:51:58 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Felina Rakowski-Gallagher <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Cancer during pregnancy
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In a message dated 9/20/2005 3:14:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I have an aquaintence suffering with cancer during her pregnancy
Being diagnosed with b/c More than a year AFTER my son was born, I had
already stopped nursing or pumping on that side and had been exlusively using the
other side. Which I continued to pump and dump when they made me take
radioactive bone scans, or procedures. I was in constant contact with Hale who was
very helpful. Also brought that big hunker Classic into the room and pumped
after my mastectomy so I could continue to nurse until chemo started. One of the
saddest moments ever.
My chemo medications are different (and I'm not familiar with your
acquaintance's meds) but mine prohibit nursing. Since I am in treamtment for a year
and son was 14 months when I started, I closed up shop.
I offer the suggestion that you/she speak to the collegues who worked with
Dr. Jeanne Petrek of Memorial Sloan Kettering here in NYC. (Her research and
expertise can be googled). She was about to publish research on cancer and
pregnancy just before she was tragically run over by a vehicle and killed. But
other MD's who worked with her have pooled their knowledge together and are a
great resource. I did followup with them to see if they were in agreement with my
current treatment with a different facility. It was extremely helpful to
have them take a fresh look at all the tests, etc. and give me their opinion.
If she has great insurance or can afford to pay out of pocket/get some
reimbursement, she might want to meet with them. Feel free to write offline if
you'd like further info.
Felina
The Upper Breast Side, Corp.
www.upperbreastside.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:45:09 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Sue Jacoby, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: To Ms. Flowers
Ms Flowers,
You poor thing. The very idea of having to be confronted with.... a woman
feeding her baby! From the breast! Disgusting!
I'm with you- nursing a baby is practically the SAME THING as a man urinating!
The way I see it, these women should stay HOME where they BELONG if they
want to do "that sort of thing."
I keep smelling salts in my purse at all times- just in case I see something
that upsets MY delicate nature- how about you?
Try to get over the trauma- don't worry- It WILL get better. Just give it
some time.
Sincerely,
Your Friend
Shrinking Violet
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:17:45 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nikki Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Educating other about the WHO Code
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Hi all,
When you are educating others about the WHO Code-what website(s) do you feel
best explain the issues to the person who has never even breastfed? I have
given some commentary but would like to send them to a site or two that will
have all the relevant info in one spot. And if someone knows where online
that story is about ----When the WHO Code was being debated and it got
heated before the vote, the delegate from a country in Africa who stood up
and said that the formula companies were killing his people, because the
babies needed breastmilk. I think I heard Marsha Walker tell this story in
KC Missouri at dinner. Marsha, I have already suggested they buy "Selling
Out".
I have the listening ear of a large online community and I am trying to walk
a fine line, because one woman has already suggested this might be about
bashing mothers who formula feed.
Off to surf and compose a thoughtful response to that woman.
Thanks,
Nikki Simmons
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:24:02 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "M.Ersilia Armeni" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Marketing our profession
Hi all.
I am following with interest this thread about marketing products, ideas,
professions. It is all the same stuff, although start as well as end
points are thoroughly different. Here in Italy we have a law that forbids
doctors advertising their practices. Although in the old times, I guess,
there was a well meaning intent in separating us from quacks and barbers
etc. now there are rumors that the law will probably change. People are
more educated - at least on this topic - and can or quickly learn how to
choose and know what's behind and between words and pictures. Therefore I
feel more compelled to market the IBCLC profession - one that is not even
ufficially recognized - for reasons far beyond than personal. For this
purpose I am gathering any possible piece of evidence showing how
breastfeeding prevalence and duration are improved in affluent/western
type of society upon *IBCLC* intervention. I am asking you to kindly
share your information or any suggestion on the issue.
Warm regards
M.Ersilia Armeni, MD
pediatrician AND ibclc
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:48:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Burger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: How to help feeding at the breast
Dear all:
Here I'm putting on my public health hat - from working with all those social marketers for
nutrition interventions. Looking at the big picture of why women see the pump as essential you
have to look at Norway and why many more women there are able to breastfeed - as in feed at the
breast.
They have good protections protecting parental leave. It makes a huge difference. If you want to
change the perception that the pump is essential, I would definitely put your energies into
changing the legislation in your state to protect parental leave. The La Leche League website has
a whole section on breastfeeding and the law with an updated state by state section and as i
mentioned before the document on the United States Breastfeeding Coalition website has a nice
structure for reviewing what items should be in place for the ideal legislation.
If I started admonishing my particular population of women about exclusively feeding at the
breast (as opposed to mostly feeding at the breast and pumping when they are at work - or even
"social events") they would consider me naive at best and a breastfeeding nazi luddite at worst.
My colleague had a client who actually told her to call back later because she couldn't write down
the number at that moment. She was not nursing her five day old baby - she was having a
manicure. This is a population where the leap is tremendous - so rather than falling into the
Grand Canyon - I'm trying to build a bridge across, one little plank at a time.
Best, Susan.
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:04:34 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Susan Burger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: UNICEF
I have to say that I was a little disappointed after stewing all day through my consultations that
started at 9 am and the prenatal class that finished at 9:45 pm (after 45 extra minutes of
questions about the pumping, going back to work issue). I had expected many more postings and
cries of outrage over Janice Reynolds post about the changes in UNICEF.
After all those years working in developing countries, the one thing that James Grant had done
was to set the stage where the rights of infants and young children were firmly established,
including the primal right to breastfeeding. HIV has taken a huge toll because it enabled the
industry to use the excuse of HIV to start marketing in ways that have clearly spilled over into the
non-HIV population and we now know that exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months is the
wa to go. But taking away the support for legislative protection is huge.
Think of the present conditions in New Orleans. A mix of chemicals and bacteria that are lethal.
Some of you may think that the environment is less polluted in developing countries. Not true.
Any large city in any developing country I have visited, except perhaps Niamey in Niger which is a
sleepy little dusty town with camels roaming down the street, is far more polluted than the worst
we have in the United States. I am sure that the slums of most third world countries would be
equivalent to the present conditions in New Orleans. Think of building yourself a shack in New
Orlens with whatever scraps you could scavenge and then trying to bottle feed your baby
powdered milk. Voila - that is going to be the basic situation multiplied millions-fold if the
protection against marketing is withdrawn. Envision whatever you have watched in the news
about Katerina after the flooding died down. The swill swishing through the streets reminds me
of the slums in Manila - Bangkok - Jakarta - Kinshasa, etc. Start thinking about bottle feeding
formula in those conditions all over the globe in third world cities. That's the scope.
UNICEF is huge. It was the only UN agency that actually implemented interventions and that was
entirely due to James Grant's work. WHO basically only does policy and has a few people in each
country. UNICEF has huge programs. If UNICEF withdraws its support, the mortality rates that are
unacceptably high will sky rocket.
Keep doing what you are doing for Katerina AND please write a letter to UNICEF as well. While
you're at it, write to your political representatives and point out how inappropriate it is to have the
head of UNICEF come from the food industry and cite this particular incident - the withdrawal of
support for the WHO code - as an example of why this is a conflict of interest.
Every baby I have held in my arms in those countries that I knew was not going to make it is now
screaming at me, do something, do something, do something.
Best regards, Susan Burger
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:38:06 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Hand Mitts/Covers
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I felt the need to quickly join in on the thread related to covering the
infant's hands with the cuff at the end of the t-shirt. What is started in the
hospital or modeled by the clinician is something that parents will continue
doing at home. I saw a patient one time who kept her baby's hands tucked into
those miserable cuffs because her health care providers and family kept
telling her that the baby would scratch his face if the hands were not covered.
She came in to see me because she had sore nipples. When she went to put the
baby to the breast, one nipple was oozing so much pus it stuck to her bra. When
we went to put the baby to the other breast I noticed that his hands were
cuffed and removed the cuffs so that his hands could massage the breasts (like
a kitten), as that kneading of the hands is part of the feeding response.
What I saw was that every tiny fingernail had an infected hangnail on each side
of it. Three quarters of one thumb had turned black. What a mess. I guess I
must weigh in on the side of allowing those little hands to feel the soft
warmth of the mother's breast and knead the tissue like they were intended.
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
Weston, MA
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:57:08 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: formula company literature
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Dear Friends:
I got a folder at a local hospital that promotes Similac with Iron.
The cover says "There is a difference...........Three more reasons to
recommend Similac with Iron Infant Formula." There are lots of nice smiling
babies, graphs and amazing writing.
The heading of one section says "Similac with Iron, with its unique fat
blend, has been clinically shown to support growth and visual and mental
development like that of breastfed infants." In the text below this lovely
heading, there is a highlighted box saying that "Adding DHA and AA to Similac with
Iron provided no advantage for term infants' visual acuity, general
developmen, information processing, temperament, language."
This section goes on to say that "The findings are consistent with a
previous study that showed no visual or developmental benefits at 12 months or
39 months when DHA and AA were added to Similac with Iron."
So why should anyone buy the fancy new stuff?
And what sort of dissonant technique is this, for Abbott to put out a
brochure knocking another one of its formulae?
Inside the folder is a study (Pediatrics 2001; Vol 108 (2):372-381)
where the breastfed group was in two sub-groups: those starting formula within 11
days of birth, and those exclusively breastfed for at least 3 months
(including a "small percentage" that were fed less than 16 oz of
supplement/week............so why are they included in the exclusively breastfed group?)
The conclusion of this study includes "........no advantages to
breastfeeding on any of the development outcome (sic) demonstrated." Also "These
findings do not support adding AA + DHA to enhance growth, visual acuity" and
other factors during the first 14 months after birth.
Ross's own research is showing that these expensive new formulae are
worthless....so why would they advertise this finding? Answer: to keep selling
their old formula...Similac with Iron.
warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCE
Maternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and University
Film Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactation
www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:31:31 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ann Perry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: reference of stomach capacity
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In a message dated 9/19/2005 8:37:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Zangen S, Di Lorenzo C, Zangen T, Mertz H, Schwankovsky L, Hyman P. (2001)
Rapid maturation of gastric relaxation in newborn infants. Pediatric
Research 50(5):629-632.
Fascinating research that does support the gradual increase in volume that
breastfed infants naturally receive.... but even more fascinating how they
ever got mothers to agree to perform this research on their newborns - i
know I wouldn't have.
Denise offered this reference but I want everyone to note the word I
highlighted and then remove it from the sentence. Yes, breastfeeding is the norm so
all literature should be looking at what the normal infant's capacity.
Those poor babies who are receiving formula are getting amounts anywhere from
15cc to 60cc in the first day. There really needs documentation and education
to both healthcare workers and parents on the normal expectations of babies.
Ann Perry, RN IBCLC
Boston, MA
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:57:19 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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<[log in to unmask]>
From: Jennifer Seelaus <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: My response to Christine Flowers
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Chris, your response was absolutely perfect. Way to
go! :-)
__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:58:33 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Naomi Bar-Yam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF letters
Comments: To: Susan Burger <[log in to unmask]>
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Thanks for your inspiring reminder. Maybe I am too jaded, but I
wonder how much letters really help. There is clearly an agenda here.
I'm happy to write, I guess I just need a pep talk that it's worth
the effort.
Also, what is the process for choosing a UNICEF director? How will
writing to our representatives help?
Thanks,
Naomi Bar-Yam
On Sep 21, 2005, at 7:57 AM, LACTNET automatic digest system wrote:
> Keep doing what you are doing for Katerina AND please write a
> letter to UNICEF as well. While
> you're at it, write to your political representatives and point out
> how inappropriate it is to have the
> head of UNICEF come from the food industry and cite this particular
> incident - the withdrawal of
> support for the WHO code - as an example of why this is a conflict
> of interest.
--------------------------------
Naomi Bar-Yam Ph.D.
[log in to unmask]
Researcher, Writer, Educator
in Maternal and Child Health
--------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:27:01 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Gary Keeling & Patricia Roppel-Keeling <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: reference of stomach capacity
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This is quite timely receiving this email this morning! I am trying to get
all my informamiton together for WBW right now. I am contimplating a
inservice for hospital and community health staff. This article will work
quite nicely with some of the information that I was intending to share!
prk
In the Beginning Lactation Services
Patricia Roppel-Keeling, IBCLC, RLC
[519] 372 - 1330 or [519] 377 - 9725
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Perry" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:31 AM
Subject: reference of stomach capacity
>>
> Zangen S, Di Lorenzo C, Zangen T, Mertz H, Schwankovsky L, Hyman P.
> (2001)
> Rapid maturation of gastric relaxation in newborn infants. Pediatric
> Research 50(5):629-632.
> Fascinating research that does support the gradual increase in volume
> that
> breastfed infants naturally receive.... but even more fascinating how
> they
> ever got mothers to agree to perform this research on their newborns - i
> know I wouldn't have.
>
>
> Ann Perry, RN IBCLC
> Boston, MA
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:32:04 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Linda J. Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: BFLRC
Subject: Re: Educating other about the WHO Code
Comments: To: Nikki Simmons <[log in to unmask]>
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The Code isn't about mothers' individual decisions.
The Code isn't even about the product itself.
The Code is about how Formula and feeding bottles are MARKETED.
Specifically, the Code is designed to prevent specific unethical marketing
tactics from robbing women of their right to full information for informed
decision-making and undermining their decision to breastfeed.
Remember the title: "International Code of MARKETING of Breastmilk
Substitutes."
Linda J. Smith, BSE, FACCE, IBCLC
Bright Future Lactation Resource Centre Ltd
6540 Cedarview Ct, Dayton OH 45459
937-438-9458 / fax 937-438-3229
www.BFLRC.com <http://www.bflrc.com/>
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:01:39 -0400
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From: "Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hand mitts and breastfeeding
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I use two strategies to help babies keep their hands out of the way when
learning to latch. First, I have mom just let the baby eat his or her
hand, until the baby realizes that there's no milk there. Babies are
smart, and learn rapidly from the consequences of their actions if we
let them! Then, I have mom bring the baby much closer to her trunk. If
the baby's belly is on mom's ribcage, the chest is on the breast, and
the chin is touching outside the areola, there is no room for the hands
to get in the way! I think a lot of the hand flailing has two roots:
insecurity because the baby's movement is suddenly free after being
constrained by the uterus (think being wrapped tightly in trampoline
rubber) and they are unstable because of that; and they are looking for
the breast in a tactile manner (babies who are self-attaching use their
hands on the breast first to locate the nipple, then press on the breast
to make the nipple area stand up where their mouth can grasp it). If we
give them great postural stability by "plastering" them to mom's trunk
and give them tactile input by letting their chin touch the breast and
the nipple touch their philtrum (the little ridge between nose and
mouth), the flailing stops and their motor activity becomes very
directed and purposeful. Since I've discovered this, I've been able to
help older and older babies to attach to the breast. I have wonderful
video tape of a one month old baby who had never successfully latched
before crying and struggling, then going right onto the breast as soon
as his chin touched. I use a little snippet of it in some of my
presentations...
This is not to say that I never swaddle babies, and sometimes if mom has
relatively large breasts, we trap the babies lower arm in mom's cleavage
to keep it out of the way. Just most of the time, I find that the above
works and I don't have to swaddle or stress about the hands.
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC NYC
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:16:33 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: heather <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Educating other about the WHO Code
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I have despaired for years about how people who don't 'get it' think
the WHO Code is saying something to, or about, mothers.
As Linda J. says, it's about marketing.
It's not a 'message' to mothers.
It's a policy for governments and healthcare providers.
How can this be 'bashing' mothers who use formula?
I sometimes add that the Code helps ensure mothers who use formula
are protected, too. Why should the decision about what to give her
baby *for his sole source of nutrition* be based on whichever product
has the cutest packaging, or gave out the sparkliest trinket, or
bribed his paediatrician with the best golf holiday?
And my heart is very low when I read about the UNICEF executive
directorship. I don't understand about the appointment being in the
power of President Bush. I don't understand how this can be true?
Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc, tutor, UK
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:19:03 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Ann Conlon-Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where to begin with mis-statements
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Whatever made me pick up a copy of Health and Healing -- a freebie newspaper
that was out at the library? The theme for this issue is Myth-Information.
One full page is title, "Breast Feeding Prevents Pregnancy?" There is a big
photo of a local prominant OB/GYN who is also quite well known for
infertility treatments. He goes through the first two paragraphs debunking that in
fact breastfeeding might offer any protection against pregnancy. Then, he
clearly recommends going back on the pill while breastfeeding and in particular,
he suggest avoiding progesterone only pills to avoid bleeding. But, the most
unbearable part is as follows:
"Health and Healing: Do you offer advice about the length of the breast
feeding period?
Dr. Mulvaney: Six weeks seems to be the ideal time to get the benefits of
the antibodies, but socially there is no specific time. It has much to do
with a philosophy of life. Breast feeding is, I think, a pacifier for both Mom
and baby, and of course it promotes intimacy and bonding. When the child can
ask for it, it's probably time to move on."
My question to you wise women is WHERE do I begin? Do I even want to tackle
this and is it even worth it. So much of me has come to believe it just
isn't worth the effort most of the time. Thanks, Ann
Ann Conlon-Smith, IBCLC
Triangle Lactation Consultants
_www.trianglelactation.com_ (http://www.trianglelactation.com/)
"While breastfeeding may not seem the right choice for every parent, it is
the best choice for every baby."
Amy Spangler
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:28:28 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Linda Anderegg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: formula company literature
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Nikki,
>Ross's own research is showing that these expensive new formulae are
>worthless....so why would they advertise this finding?
Answer: Because so few people actually read the fine print. Most people
are only reading the headline or the advertising slogan. At my hospital we
have all of our supplies in cabinets with clear plastic doors. The tags on
the formula sample bags are usually clearly visible with their
unsubstantiated claims too. Just because it's there people believe it's
true. I have complained to the FTC several times about this and if I have a
reason to go into those cabinets I rip all the tags off and put them in the
circular file. Visitors walk by this area all the time and see the bags.
They do complain if they don't get one when they leave even though our
policy and physician orders clearly state that formula discharge bags are
not to be given to breastfeeding mothers. They still complain even when we
explain it to them so they end up getting one anyways in the interest of
customer satisfaction. What about the baby's customer satisfaction?
I suggest you forward your findings about the discrepancy in the research
study published and Ross' advertising claims to the FTC.
http://www.ftc.gov/
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:31:01 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anne Andrianos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SIDS conference report
Comments: To: anna utter <[log in to unmask]>,
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I have returned, with a heavy heart, from the Fisrt
Candle conference (you can google them and learn
alot). I listened and learned, expressed some ideas.
My personal philosophy is that I don't have ht epower
to change another, I can only change myself...soI put
out these comments believeing that we have much to do
within our profession and in our involvement with
policy development, such as bed sharing. The following
comments are factual, not emotional, and I hope
helpful. This was my first SIDS conf.
There is no doubt that the SIDS/SUDI (sudden
enexpected death in infancy)groups (backed by their
research) are determined to stop infant death by what
ever means it takes. We need to understand that they
have experienced the tragic loss of a baby, or
regularly work in the home with families who have lost
a baby, do death scene investigations and recreate the
death scene...they have an insight that we don't. The
pictures shown at the conference were shocking. I
think we need to listen to them and learn. I think the
pics in magazines and in our articles about bedsharing
are "pretty and dreamy" etc. and we should consider
how to better display safe BS. We also need to
consider the family bed...and the role of the todler
body in the bed. Tine Thevinin's "Family Bed" book was
shown in the power point, but summarily dismissed "I
did't read it" said the speaker. We need to design the
safe BS protocol, explicitly.
Definitions are confusing and tems are used
interchangably which makes communication difficult.
Bedsharing (BS) means not only the parental bed, but a
couch, reclining chair, futon, matress on the
floor...any surface on which the mother (or other) and
baby lie together. I think you can already guess how
some babies die in these situations...and how the
numbers of deaths on surfaces other than a bed inflate
the BS death figures. Room sharing is co-sleeping,
although some mean bedsharing, so please, be careful
when you speak and explain your terms and ask for
definitions. Their research and our commentary bears
the same confusion.
Bedsharing is on the rise around the world. Many women
who are not breastfeeding are bed sharing, so the need
for education about safe sleep in all sorts of
environments goes well beyound the breastfeeding
community. I wa sdisappointed that no mentioned was
made of the risk of babies sleeping in their car
seats.
They support, encourage BF, but do accept that bed
sharing is safe. One delegate said to me that "safe
bed sharing is an oxymoron". I do not think they value
the "mother baby togetherness" concept as we do. Maybe
we need to better educate around this point.I told
them about Nils Bergman's work and skin-to-skin).
Several references to how safe the baby is in a crib
versus unsafe in the mother's bed, indicated this.
While mentioned, the room sharing idea was not pushed
real hard as as serious risk reduction measure. I
think that is a real area of common ground.
Gwendolyn West, from Washington DC did a very nice
presentation on Breastfeeding abd safe bed sharing on
the first day. I met a neonatoligist from a BF
Friendly hospital in Argentina who vigorously
supported bedsharing. He said in his experience,
having the baby in the supine position was what made
the difference.
As for cribs and portable cribs, which are popular in
the crib distribution programs springing up all over
the country, is there room for comromise? Ask youself,
where should mothers put a baby during nap time, when
she is bathing her toddler, or taking out the trash,
shoveling the snow? What if she only has a couch in
her tiny apartment? Some would say in her sling...but
can ther be other suggestions. Again, safety needs to
be taught with the crib as blakets and soft materials
can be dangerous too.
Another area of concern discussed was the use of
pacifiers as a risk reduction measure. Impact on
breastfeeding was minimized (the presenter said that
the research studies she had seen were "observationl
studies" and not that powerful. non-breastfeeding
mothers are the audience on this one.
I have no inside information, but I think, the AAP
will be advising pacifier use and crib sleeping a SIDS
risk reduction measures when they announce their
recommendations on Oct. 10.
There is plenty to consider. How could the ILCA board
intervene with the AAP (if my hunch is verified) and
with the First Candle board? We have the same
goal...healthy babies and families, yet very different
approaches. We can get into the federal government
role on infant health and projects being supported or
not later.
Anne Andrianos
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:39:38 -0500
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Linda Anderegg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hand Mitts/Covers
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>What I saw was that every tiny fingernail had an infected hangnail on each
side of >it. Three quarters of one thumb had turned black. What a mess. I
guess I must >weigh in on the side of allowing those little hands to feel
the soft warmth of the >mother's breast and knead the tissue like they were
intended.
>Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
>Weston, MA
Marsha,
Are you suggesting that the nails became infected because they were kept
covered (warm dark place), maybe becoming contaminated from mother's
infected nipples because the nails were clipped? Or that the baby's
infected nails contaminated the cracks in the mother's nipples and caused
her infection? Were the nails clipped at all, or maybe bitten? If they
weren't clipped this is very disturbing.
And, by the way, I agree with you that hands must be uncovered when feeding.
I don't object so much to parents covering them between feedings but I
remind them that baby has been sucking on his fingers for nearly 9 months
and they are a source of comfort and pleasure. When parents put the
removable mittens on the baby they usually end up on the floor and then back
in baby's mouth. Yuk!
Linda Anderegg, RNC, IBCLC, RLC
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:43:30 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Heleen en Harmen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SIDS conference report
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On 21 Sep 2005 at 8:31, Anne Andrianos wrote:
> Definitions are confusing and tems are used
> interchangably which makes communication difficult.
> Bedsharing (BS) means not only the parental bed, but a
> couch, reclining chair, futon, matress on the
> floor...any surface on which the mother (or other) and
> baby lie together. I think you can already guess how
> some babies die in these situations...and how the
> numbers of deaths on surfaces other than a bed inflate
> the BS death figures. Room sharing is co-sleeping,
> although some mean bedsharing, so please, be careful
> when you speak and explain your terms and ask for
> definitions. Their research and our commentary bears
> the same confusion.
I feel that unsafe bedsharing is compared to the safest form of cot-
sleeping. This is an unfair deal. I wonder how the numbers would be
if safe cosleeping, following all the rules that we know, would be
compared to safe cot-sleeping.
> They support, encourage BF, but do accept that bed
> sharing is safe. One delegate said to me that "safe
> bed sharing is an oxymoron".
If that is the case, I would say so is safe cot-sleeping....
--
Heleen Hayes
www.xs4all.nl/~hhayes
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:03:00 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Leslie Ashton <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: home
Subject: Re: Educating other about the WHO Code
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Just fresh from an 18 hr lactation educator training this weekend, where =
we viewed a 1994 video by Infact Canada, featuring Dr. Jack Newman, on =
understanding the Code and its implications.
I checked on the Infact website, but cannot find this video listed: =
http://www.infactcanada.ca
Some points I jotted down to assist me in transmitting this info to =
others, as concisely and as succinctly as in the video are:
Anything from an industry manufacturer of artificial human milk =
substitutes is PROMOTIONAL, *not* factual.
The goal of the AIM manufacturer is to SELL their artificial human milk =
substitute, and that can only accomplished at the expense of =
breastfeeding. Their bottom line depends on persuading lactating women =
not to breastfeed.
Voluntary Codes are not effective and need to be regulated by law.
Hospitals, or others, who allow industry promotion are in fact =
responsible for their endorsement, by association.
Leslie Ashton, RN, BSc
Policy & Political Action Officer
Childbirth Nurses Interest Group
Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:06:34 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Barb Strange <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Motherfest: Public breastfeeding, what's the big deal?
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Motherfest: Public breastfeeding, what's the big deal?
Shortcut to: =
http://onmilwaukee.com/family/articles/motherfest44.html?7538
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:10:21 -0600
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From: Barb Strange <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breast-feeding is very family-friendly
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Breast-feeding is very family-friendly
Shortcut to: =
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/19/Northpinellas/Breast_feeding_is_ver.sht=
ml
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:18:17 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Subject: Formula company literature/pacifiers and SIDS
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Just a few thoughts on these two topics. First, I think that the formula =20
company literature that Nikki is referring to is old. Check the date on the=20=
=20
bottom of the materials. Ross resisted putting the DHA/ARA into their formul=
as at=20
first because they were probably unsure of what their return on investment =20
would be. They even convened a meeting on this issue, exploring whether it w=
as =20
actually necessary to add the stuff. The data back then and now still shows=20=
=20
that there is little if any advantage to the infant to add the stuff to=20
formula (and some hazards). They wound up adding the DHA/ARA because they d=
id not=20
want to let their competition secure an advantage in the marketplace. This=20=
has=20
nothing to do with health, as shown by an analysis of whether the product=20
would make money. Formulaid is Martek's name of the DHA/ARA combination of=20
fatty acids:
=20
Hambrecht & Quist- investment advisors and financial analysts Spot Report,=20
June 3,1996=20
=20
=20
n=E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6with all products being almost identical and marketers c=
ompeting=20
intensely to differentiate their product...=E2=80=9D=20
n
=E2=80=9CEven if Formulaid had no benefit, we think that it would be widely=
=20
incorporated into most formulas as a marketing tool and to allow companies=
to=20
promote their formulas as =E2=80=98closest to human milk.=E2=80=99 "
=20
The other thought I had was about the report from the SIDS conference and =20
the mistaken notion that pacifiers are protective for SIDS. The original dat=
a on=20
pacifier use and SIDS showed that some babies come to rely or depend on =20
pacifiers to modulate their breathing. SIDS happened in pacifier-dependent =20
babies when they lost their pacifier during the night. Deliberately making a=
baby=20
dependent on a pacifier in order to prevent SIDS is quite frightening. What=20=
=20
are parents supposed to do--glue the piece of plastic into the baby's mouth=20=
at =20
night, put him all alone into a crib on his back, in a separate room, and=20
wire him to an apnea monitor, motion sensor, sonar, radar, and install a=20
telemetry unit in their bedroom?
=20
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
Weston, MA
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:19:11 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Renee Drake <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LACTNET Digest - 21 Sep 2005 - Special issue (#2005-219)
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In a message dated 9/21/2005 8:19:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
This is not to say that I never swaddle babies, and sometimes if mom has
relatively large breasts, we trap the babies lower arm in mom's cleavage
to keep it out of the way. Just most of the time, I find that the above
works and I don't have to swaddle or stress about the hands.
Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC NYC
Thank you for this bit of information. I have always wondered at the poor
babe that flails his hands around wondering how to best cope with those hands.
I will try your technique and see how it goes.
Renee Drake RN CLC
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:49:23 -0400
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From: Norma Ritter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: how to help feeding at the breast
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Susan wrote:
>If I started admonishing my particular population of women about
exclusively feeding at the breast (as opposed to mostly feeding at the
breast and pumping when they are at work - or even "social events")
they would consider me
naive at best and a breastfeeding nazi luddite at worst.
My colleague had a client who actually told her to call back later
because she couldn't write down the number at that moment. She was
not nursing her five day old baby - she was having a manicure. This
is a population where the leap is tremendous - so rather than falling
into the Grand Canyon - I'm trying to build a bridge across, one
little plank at a time.<
My dear husband has a suggestion for such clients:
When they have their breast augmentations (as a 16th birthday
present,) they should also have an internal pump inserted. When their
babies are born, all they will need to do is to attach plastic tubing
which will deliver their milk straight into a bottle, thus
facilitating pumping and making it completely unecessary to ever
actually breastfeed. Care would have to be taken to ensure that the
remote control coding for the pump did not conflict with that of the
TV or garage door opener controls.
norma, only slightly tongue in cheek
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:20:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: "Ellen Penchuk, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: long-term lactation lowers hypertension risk
Study shows that long-term lactation lowers the risk of hypertension in
premenopausal women:
http://www.mdlinx.com/FamilyMDLinx/thearts.cfm?artid=1325205&specid=15
Ellen Penchuk, IBCLC, RLC
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:36:37 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jeanette Panchula <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hand mits
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Linda said: I remind them that baby has been sucking on his fingers for
nearly 9 months and they are a source of comfort and pleasure.
This may be a plus or minus in the parent's mind...they DON'T want babies to
get "in the habit" of finger sucking for comfort or pleasure - so hand mits
discussed in this context may actually ENCOURAGE their use rather than
discourage it.
I usually explain the importance of all senses for the baby - they need to
feel with their hands, and need to feel that when they touch their own face
it feels different (two places of contact, hand and face) vs. when they
touch mom's breast. All this being entered into their brains making
different connections. Experimentation is better if all the tools are
available rather than if you cover one (I even have compared it to covering
baby's eyes - as that seems to be a big deal to us all - we WANT our babies
to look at us.
Jeanette Panchula, BSW, RN, PHN, IBCLC
California
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:44:16 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Susan Burger <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Water and sanitation
Since I hadn't seen much about Katrina on the other Listserve I'm on - the CORE group of private
voluntary organizations (PVOs) that work on child survival programs in international settings, I was
surprised to see a posting from one PVO about all sorts of information about sanitation and nothing
on breastfeeding. So, couldn't help myself and posted to their website about the concerns on infant
and young child feeding along in this situation with the ILCA and La Leche League website
information on emergency feeding, the information about human donor milk banks. Hopefully, it will
remind them that this situation is no different than those they have confronted in emergency
situations elsewhere and not forget about safe infant feeding practices.
Best, Susan Burger
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:49:07 +1200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lee & Karen Palmer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: covering hands while breastfeeding
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I feel so much about breastfeeding is about all the 5 senses working =
together beautifully to create this wonderful experience at each and =
every feed. I personally find you cannot achieve a good latch with the =
hands and arms tucked down, especially if the hands are folded over the =
baby's chest wall. The baby would then be stretching its neck (which is =
very short) to reach the breast! The only time I find the need to tuck =
in an arm is with a baby that has had stressful experiences at the =
breast and has learned to resist when the breast is offered. Even then =
I only tuck down the outside arm allowing the inside arm to wrap around =
the posterior side of the offered breast.
The tactile experience of breastfeeding is very important to both mother =
and baby. After 1 - 2 weeks of age the baby no longer gets his or her =
hands in the way and "kneads" mums breast like a little kitten. I =
usually then observe Mum inspecting those little fingers and playing =
with the soft nail beds before moving onto the baby's head to "groom" =
and pet a little more.
Which brings me on to the subject of babies nails. Little scissors, =
emory boards etc are just another baby gimmick that people think they =
must have. All babies scratch their faces at least a few times before =
they realise the connection. Perhaps this is their first experience of =
cause and effect! If babies fingernails are left alone by artifical =
products and just "fiddled" with by mum while baby feeds, they do not =
need trimming for at least 2 years. This was my experience with my 4 =
children and it is what I advise my clients. When they return to me =
with another pregnancy and the subject comes up they are amazed to =
report this was their experience too.
My other concern about tight swaddling and/or mittens is how it applies =
to back sleeping. Any experts out there on SIDS may be able to answer =
this. I thought there was a relationship between the hands being free =
(usually above the head) and the baby's palms being a heat cooling =
system. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Karen Palmer
Midwife
New Zealand
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:55:20 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Mary Sirian Peterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Risks of Formula Feeding
In an effort to not "reinvent the wheel", our NICU Breastfeeding Resource
Group would like to find a brochure that is already developed, and
hopefully with a reference list that describes the "Risks of Formula
Feeding". We would like to have this given out at a Mother's first OB
visit. Does anyone know of such a brochure/handout? Thanks! Mary Sirian
Peterson, RN, IBCLC
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:06:25 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Karleen Gribble <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF
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Susan and all,
I guess I've been sitting here wondering how this all happened?? How did
this person end up the head of UNICEF? What are other orgs doing to protest
the removal of legal assistance to implementation of the WHO code? For me at
least, the silence was at least a bit due to shock.....and waiting for
someone to post that it was not true! It just seems so crazy!
Karleen Gribble
Australia
> I have to say that I was a little disappointed after stewing all day
through my consultations that
> started at 9 am and the prenatal class that finished at 9:45 pm (after 45
extra minutes of
> questions about the pumping, going back to work issue). I had expected
many more postings and
> cries of outrage over Janice Reynolds post about the changes in UNICEF.
>
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:16:17 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Anne Andrianos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: More on pacifiers
Comments: To: [log in to unmask], linda smith <[log in to unmask]>,
anna utter <[log in to unmask]>
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Peter Wiess, the presenter from the UK (who
acknowledged that he accepted support from the
pacifier manufacturer who was a vendor MAM or Sassy)
and the US physician, Fern Hauck, had research that
was new... within the past 2-4 years, I believe. The
MD offered guidelines, and suprisingly acknowledged
that when the pacifier fell out, probably within 15
minutes, don't put it back in!? I was very surprised.
So how did it work? No really good answers...just a
couple of theories. This is why it is so distrubing if
the AAP recommends pacifier use.
All the presentation are supposed to be up on the
First Candle website soon.
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:25:56 +1200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Lee & Karen Palmer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: big business and politics
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I am learning so much from this list. In particular being able to =
access references and resources from the collective knowledge base of =
the group. I am from a small country where we are very reliant on =
overseas studies and publications as we have limited resources for such =
things. =20
However being small does have its advantages. I have been following the =
recent postings about the influence of big business and the recent =
appointment with UNICEFF. I find it incredulous! But to comment on =
this would be to comment on the politics of big nations. And that in =
itself would take a dissertation!
On a more day to day level, I am amazed at the examples people from the =
US give about the use of formula in hospitals. Formula has been locked =
away in maternity wards here for nearly twenty years! That is not to =
say we don't have our problems and frustrations and we are by no means =
perfect but gezz - who gave formula the big medal of honour!
I know you are all doing what you can to fight it but while you have a =
business/hospital driven, verses consumer/community driven health =
service, that is going to be hard to change. =20
Somebody discussed work exchanges a while ago. I hope to attend ILCA =
next year and would love to meet as many of you as possible. Meanwhile =
if anyone is travelling "down under" I would be very happy to be of any =
assistance. I can be reached by email [log in to unmask]
Karen Palmer
Independant Midwife
Who can't remember the last formula fed baby I have seen!
Awaiting LC results (previous 1994)
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:26:54 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Judy Ritchie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Where to begin with mis-statements
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When the child can ask for it, it's probably time to move on-----stop
breastfeeding.
=20
This is not the first time I have heard or read this quote. It is a =
strange
point of reference in raising a child. Whenever a child can ask for
something and be understood, such as for a parent, toy, food, diaper =
change
or the toilet, it is considered a milestone. Wonder why asking for the
breast should be viewed with such intolerance. It seems actually =
hostile to
the child.
=20
Judy Ritchie
=20
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:37:05 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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Sender: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Tina Kimmel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF
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i wrote an email to anne veneman on monday. here=20
is the form-letter response i received. it's=20
going to take me a while to calm down enough to=20
craft a reply, but please feel free to do so=20
yourself. just incredible how slimy these creeps=20
are.
tina
>Subject: Message from Alan Court, Director,=20
>Programme Division Re: International Code of=20
>Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes
>Sensitivity:
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Cc: Chitra Jayawardena <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Beth Kopecky <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:49:39 -0400
>
>
>Dear Ms. Kimmel,
>
>Thank you for contacting us regarding the=20
>International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk=20
>Substitutes. We appreciate your support for=20
>UNICEF's work in this vital area.
>
>First and foremost, I assure you that UNICEF's=20
>commitment to the Code is as strong as ever.=20
>UNICEF Executive Director Ann Veneman has a=20
>long-standing commitment to promoting sound=20
>nutrition for women and children. Promotion and=20
>protection of early and exclusive breastfeeding=20
>remain key elements of our programmes on child=20
>survival and maternal health. The Code is a=20
>fundamental platform for achieving Millennium=20
>Development Goals Four and Five. Ms. Veneman has=20
>placed the Millennium Development Goals at the=20
>centre of UNICEF's agenda, and they will frame=20
>UNICEF's priorities in the coming years.
>
>In partnership with organizations such as yours,=20
>UNICEF has been already able to help many=20
>countries adopt the Code. Many others still have=20
>a long way to go. Until now we have been relying=20
>on a single legal expert based at headquarters=20
>to meet their growing needs, but we have come to=20
>the conclusion that more help is required than=20
>UNICEF headquarters alone can provide. The=20
>urgent challenge we face is to build a strong=20
>legal network for infant feeding where it will=20
>have the most impact - within countries=20
>themselves.
>
>With this in mind, we are decentralizing=20
>responsibility for providing legal assistance on=20
>the Code to our country offices. In turn, our=20
>country offices will be strengthening ties with=20
>non-governmental organizations to bring the=20
>right expertise under the UNICEF banner and=20
>provide better, more rapid assistance to=20
>governments. We will be consulting with you and=20
>other organizations working in this field to=20
>develop a roster of individuals and=20
>organizations able to provide legal support both=20
>globally and regionally.
>
>We sincerely believe this decision will give=20
>UNICEF and the countries it supports the tools=20
>to mobilize for the critical years ahead. Our=20
>work in this area continues to grow. The=20
>organization is now dedicating significantly=20
>more attention and resources to nutrition for=20
>mothers and children and we are broadening our=20
>action on infant and young child feeding to=20
>include stronger and more comprehensive=20
>programmes around critical issues such as=20
>breastfeeding in emergencies and the feeding of=20
>children whose mothers are affected by HIV/AIDS.=20
>This is a positive trend and we expect it to=20
>continue.
>
>UNICEF deeply appreciates your continuing=20
>support. We look forward to working with you to=20
>meet the challenges for children in the years to=20
>come.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Alan Court
>Director
>Programme Division
>
>Chitra Jayawardena
>Office of the Director
>Programme Division
>UNICEF, New York
>Tel: (212) 326-7235
>Fax: (212) 824-6470
>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>www.unicef.org
>
>________________________________________
>
>For every child
>Health, Education, Equality, Protection
>ADVANCE HUMANITY
=BB@=AB*=B4`*=BB@=AB*=B4`*=BB@=AB*=B4`*=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8 =B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`*=
=B4`*=BB@=AB*=B4`*=BB@=AB*=B4`*=BB@=AB
Tina Kimmel, MSW, MPH
PhD Program, UC Berkeley School of Social Welfare
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:54:35 +0200
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Rachel Myr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: UNICEF director
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I have looked on the Infact Canada website for the news about the change of
direction at Unicef under Veneman, but can find nothing there about it. I
would like some more background. Like Heather and Jacquie, I am baffled
that the US president can hand-pick the director of a non-US agency like
Unicef, and like Susan, I am panicked at the thought of the impact this can
have. I need more info before I can draft a letter.
Rachel Myr
Kristiansand, Norway
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:09:32 -0600
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Janice Reynolds <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF director
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I have emailed the director of INFACT Canada, Elisabeth Sterken, twice in
the past 2 days, asking for more background information on this. I also
looked at the IBFAN and WABA sites, and while they noted the appointment of
Veneman, nothing yesterday mentioned this funding cut.
I think we also need to know who to cc these letters to. I suspect that, at
this point, and considering the powers of those involved, writing letters to
Veneman alone, may be naive and impotent. We need to also contact her boss,
her political opponents, any watchdog agency that monitors UNICEF, etc -
basically there must be SOMEONE who is a counterbalance to this power.
This level of politics is far beyond my experience.
I will forward anything I find out. I know that INFACT was quite busy with
a BFI training course this past week and weekend (I reached Elisabeth then
on another matter), so perhaps they are still either bogged down, or away
from the office.
Janice Reynolds
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:32:27 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
<[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jennifer Seelaus <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF director
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For the past couple of days, I've been trying to
compose a good response, but the thread seems to be
out-pacing me! So, briefly I thought I'd tell you that
I did a little research today and found that the US
and other "major" powers hand-pick the heads of UN
organizations as part of their membership. For
example, the US nominates the head of the world bank,
Europe nominates the head of the fund. UNICEF is
another of those organizations for which our president
has this privledge. Hope this helps.
--- Janice Reynolds <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I have emailed the director of INFACT Canada,
> Elisabeth Sterken, twice in
> the past 2 days, asking for more background
> information on this. I also
> looked at the IBFAN and WABA sites, and while they
> noted the appointment of
> Veneman, nothing yesterday mentioned this funding
> cut.
>
> I think we also need to know who to cc these letters
> to. I suspect that, at
> this point, and considering the powers of those
> involved, writing letters to
> Veneman alone, may be naive and impotent. We need
> to also contact her boss,
> her political opponents, any watchdog agency that
> monitors UNICEF, etc -
> basically there must be SOMEONE who is a
> counterbalance to this power.
>
> This level of politics is far beyond my experience.
>
> I will forward anything I find out. I know that
> INFACT was quite busy with
> a BFI training course this past week and weekend (I
> reached Elisabeth then
> on another matter), so perhaps they are still either
> bogged down, or away
> from the office.
>
> Janice Reynolds
>
>
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:38:08 +1000
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Jan Cornfoot <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: UNICEF & the WHO Code
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Personally, I question the value of campaigns that rely on form letters and
information that appears sensational and short on facts.
Inundating UNICEF with accusations that they have withdrawn support for the
WHO Code *could* be quite wrong. (For WBW Anne Veneman said: >>
"UNICEF strives to create an environment that enables the best choices in
infant and young child feeding practices by supporting the breastfeeding and
complementary feeding efforts of partner countries and our NGO colleagues at
three levels: improving national regulation and oversight, enhancing the
knowledge and skills of health personnel, and increasing success in the
community by providing support for each new mother to make the best choices
in feeding her children".
They are dismantling/restructuring the position of the legal advisor based
in NY, but what else do we really know for fact?
I have a copy of the letter sent by Baby Milk Action to Anne Veneman on 5
September, but it's quite long and I can't send an attachment to the list.
If you'd like a copy please email me off list over the next few days, with
"BMA letter" in the subject line !
I have asked BMA if they could possibly put this issue, and the letter on
the BMA website
(www.babymilkaction.org)
Jan Cornfoot
Breastfeeding Advocate
IBFAN representative in Australia
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:02:33 +0100
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Pamela Morrison <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: UNICEF director and withdrawal for Code implementation support
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I certainly identify with the extreme concern expressed by many of you
concerning recent UNICEF appointments and dis-appointments. I was recently
in Penang visiting the WABA office - and yes, our WABA friends are the
greatest bunch of committed people you could ever hope to meet, it was
wonderful being there. Since Janice mentions looking up the WABA website,
I have taken the liberty of forwarding some of the most recent posts
mentioning these worrying developments on to them, to let them know of your
solidarity and concern.
Pamela Morrison IBCLC
Rustington, England
At 23:05 21/09/2005, you wrote:
>I have emailed the director of INFACT Canada, Elisabeth Sterken, twice in
>the past 2 days, asking for more background information on this. I also
>looked at the IBFAN and WABA sites, and while they noted the appointment of
>Veneman, nothing yesterday mentioned this funding cut.
>
>I think we also need to know who to cc these letters to. I suspect that, at
>this point, and considering the powers of those involved, writing letters to
>Veneman alone, may be naive and impotent. We need to also contact her boss,
>her political opponents, any watchdog agency that monitors UNICEF, etc -
>basically there must be SOMEONE who is a counterbalance to this power.
>
>This level of politics is far beyond my experience.
>
>I will forward anything I find out. I know that INFACT was quite busy with
>a BFI training course this past week and weekend (I reached Elisabeth then
>on another matter), so perhaps they are still either bogged down, or away
>from the office.
>
>Janice Reynolds
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:08:49 -0700
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Cee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: UNICEF
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Yes, stunned silence... that would describe the way I felt about it. I
still can't quite get my brain around this happening. WHY? HOW?
Cee
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005, Karleen Gribble wrote:
> Susan and all,
> I guess I've been sitting here wondering how this all happened?? How did
> this person end up the head of UNICEF? What are other orgs doing to protest
> the removal of legal assistance to implementation of the WHO code? For me at
> least, the silence was at least a bit due to shock.....and waiting for
> someone to post that it was not true! It just seems so crazy!
> Karleen Gribble
> Australia
>
> > I have to say that I was a little disappointed after stewing all day
> through my consultations that
> > started at 9 am and the prenatal class that finished at 9:45 pm (after 45
> extra minutes of
> > questions about the pumping, going back to work issue). I had expected
> many more postings and
> > cries of outrage over Janice Reynolds post about the changes in UNICEF.
> >
>
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"Those of you who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those of us who
are doing it." -- Chinese proverb
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:40:55 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: The Sharp/Polstein Family <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hands and breastfeeding
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The topic of hand mitts and breastfeeding is so interesting. One of the
most common situations I see as a private practice LC is "what can I do
with his hands". I also work part time in a hospital and always see the
hand mitts. I explain hands this way to parents: your baby spent all
his time in utero involved with his hands ( I try to mimic this for
them). The hands now are the first step for the baby in a path of
reflexes. First step, hands, second, open mouth, third, rooting (which I
tell them is looking for the breast, and I define as failure to find
it). I tell mom her job is to have the breast in the right spot, keep
baby as close as possible (everything Cathie Genna talks about is
relevant here) and let baby do the work. Sometimes, if baby has little
rooting behavior, I encourage getting the hands in the mouth so that
step two, baby's open mouth, can be reached. I mention that this is
like the Discovery Channel: every baby has this instinctual pathway and
the parent's job is to be in the right place at the right time so that
baby learns what feeding is. And that little head shake a baby does
before they latch; doesn't it look exactly like all other mammals?
As for swaddling, some babies really need this to be well organized and
feed well. Probably some of these really unpleasant births are the
reason why, so what Annie says also makes sense.
Use what works.
Now, baby's head is a whole different story...
Kate Sharp
IBCLC, LLL
Manhattan, NY
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:59:38 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: parenting of the future
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In a message dated 9/21/2005 4:55:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
What are parents supposed to do--glue the piece of plastic into the baby's
mouth at night, put him all alone into a crib on his back, in a separate room,
and
wire him to an apnea monitor, motion sensor, sonar, radar, and install a
telemetry unit in their bedroom?
Dear Friends:
What a freakish image............and yet I can imagine some parents
doing it, and loads of companies itching to sell all sorts of devices for this
very thing.
What are humans doing to themselves?
warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCE
Maternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and University
Film Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactation
www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:00:35 -0400
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Pardee Hinson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Suggesting Dietary Supplements--Hospital Based IBCLCs
We are looking at what other hospitals do when the IBCLC suggests a
dietary supplement for some lactation related issue. If you recommend
certain supplements, how do you do it? Is there a policy? Do you use a
special form? Give patient information sheet? In general, what is the
flow?
Thank you for sharing that information with me. We want to give the
information to the patient as appropriate without coming across as
prescribing and without bringing up any risk management issues.
Pardee Henderson Hinson, MPH, IBCLC, CHTP
Charlotte, NC
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion
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From: Nikki Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Risks of formula feeding
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In a message dated 9/21/2005 4:55:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
In an effort to not "reinvent the wheel", our NICU Breastfeeding Resource
Group would like to find a brochure that is already developed, and
hopefully with a reference list that describes the "Risks of Formula
Feeding". We would like to have this given out at a Mother's first OB
visit. Does anyone know of such a brochure/handout? Thanks! Mary Sirian
Dear Friends:
ILCA sells several lovely versions of such a pamphlet, compiled by
Marsha Walker.
warmly,
Nikki Lee RN, MS, Mother of 2, IBCLC, CCE
Maternal-Child Adjunct Faculty Union Institute and University
Film Reviews Editor, Journal of Human Lactation
www.breastfeedingalwaysbest.com
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