I have to agree with Allen on this. Premite days, losses were in the 20% range on average (Roger Hoopingarner and I have good data on this), and after tracheal mites became established, then varroa, the average went to 30% (again, I have pretty good data on this). These averages are for, primarily, non-migratory commercial and sideline outfits...those that are, generally, schooled in bee management. Migratory keepers have higer losses due to queen loss and extreme stresses. My figures go to the 40% or so average for these, but this may be low. That 50% average isn't out of the question, certainly. The losses reported this spring must be considered with those losses in tow, you know. However, I have some data from this year also, from a survey of about 100 or so beekeepers - ranging from hobby to huge commercial spread out across the U.S. And, I've checked with bee brokers in CA, and commercial people in FL and TX...and, when added, the losses are much closer to the typical 30 - 40% than higher. 'Some, of course have experienced the full losses reported, but then some do every year. Still, 35% of the million+ hives in CA is around 350,000 colonies of bees not there anymore. But, this is what happened last year if you recall (but there were other mitigating factors then...see below), and the previous year in my surveys...so, super varroa, maybe not. I mourn the loss of even one hive that is supporting the livlihood of any beekeeper, anywhere. However, one factor must be considered that hasn't been added to the mix in this...all the news stories, all the hyperbole from beekeepers, almond growers and bee magazine editors...there are fewer beekeepers running fewer bees this year than last....or there probably are. This due to the flagging economics of keeping bees as a business. (the USDA report comes out Monday, which may shed some light on this). And varroa certainly has made major contributions to this loss. As have the other stresses. Virus, sure, it's there. rAFB, sure, that too. Poisoned hives, yup, they too added to the mix of reasons there are (probably) fewer bees and beekeepers. But so has pesticide loss, inexpensive imported honey, increasing costs of fuel, insurance, labor, equipment and everything else. Super varroa, maybe. Less than adequate beekeeping, yup, but...super bad business environment, definitely. Just like Allen said. Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 [log in to unmask] www.BeeCulture.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::