Yoon said; Not to beat the dead horse again, nevertheless, I do admire those on this list who take risks regardless of the outcome. So do I but fail to understand why many repeat methods which were proven as uneffective by others years ago. example: The *leave alone* method and breed from survivors for varroa control has been around since 1987 in the U.S.. One beekeeper lost all two thousand of his colonies and went bankrupt in the early nineties. The USDA in Baton Rouge said that selecting queens from the hives with the lowest varroa counts did not produce varroa tolerant bees after several years of trying as the reasons for a hives low or high varroa count can be from many different reasons totally unrelated to the bees. yet: Beekeepers still push *leave alone and breed from survivors* even on the BEE-L list. Yoon said; To be curious and to experiment, I believe, is just as human as to be secure and safe. I put a small number of hives aside to experiment with but will never experiment with all my hives (which many beekeepers do!). Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::