Hello Everyone on this thread. I've been reading this one sorta. I see some things that make me wonder just how stupid the consumer really is. I can definitly see doing a cold pack especially if you are a small or hobbiest producer. I have 2 colonies with plans for more. I like honey as much as anyone else, maybe even less. I don't consume vast quantities of it. The idea of bottling honey right out of the extractor and labeling it "organic" is bizarre. If you want RAW honey then buy comb honey. Raw honey as I am reading it( from this thread)is basically disgusting and I would never tell my few customers to purchase it. My suggestion for a clean definition of "raw" honey is to run your honey out of the extractor, unheated and only filter it through the first filter from one of those double stainless steel filters that you can buy from the supply houses. You will get grains of pollen and tiny tiny pieces of wax in it.( I personally do not want to eat a wax moth crysilace in my honey.) Yes it will crystilize faster , but then all honey will do that at some point. I'm going to save this thread for my 4H kids so they can see how wierd it can get. As far as "Organic" ---honey is by its nature "Organic". Again stupid consumers OR uninformed/ ignorant consumers. All we can do is educate them the best way we can. Our shot is at the farmshows and fairs that we sell at or display. Theres no way we can prevent a farmer or gardener from using a pesticide or chemical on their plants. With that thought in mind theres no way ,unless you test, that you can know for sure that your honey is "organic" and "chemical/pesticide" free. Look at the honey that is tainted from China????? Enough rambling, Good Night All Greg Kovacs :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::