Diane says, When we find that a "correct" component of latch doesn't make much difference in nipple pain... maybe it's because it's not as correct as we think it is. I've had my own paradigm for a good latch turned on its ear several times in several ways in the past year. It's humbling, confusing... and very exciting. I have a feeling that what is "right" for one mom/baby may not be "right" for another mom/baby. And I suspect there is a whole lot more to nipple pain than just an incorrect latch. I think that a baby can have a marvelous latch (whatever that is), but if mom has short stubby nipples and non-stretchy breast tissue, I suspect there is going to be some compression of the nipple because it simply CAN'T get back far enough in the baby's mouth and WILL be compressed between the tongue and the hard palate. I suspect that mothers whose areolar color did not change significantly -- particularly those that have unusually light color areola with minimal change -- will probably have more trouble with sore nipples -- all other things being equal. It sorta goes back to the "fair skin" notion, but it isn't the fairness of the skin, but the lack of change in color in the areola. I suspect there are many more women that have nipple pain that may be related to lack of color change, but may be more related to the fact that they have nipple discomfort a lot of the time -- they are the ones that get "noodgy" with breast play during love making; who have very tender nipples/breasts during pregnancy and during their periods. These women end up experiencing a lot of nipple pain....if they can tough it out, it gets better. While I think latch is important -- very important -- I think we have to step back and look at what is going on and ask more questions of the mom when we hear about her painful nipples and not just make an assumption that the latch is wrong. I've used the Matterhorn idea that Diane has promoted for latch, and also the Big Mac sandwich. I do use dominant hand position to support the baby in the early days to help "roll" the baby onto the breast because I don't see the mom/baby able to get a big enough mouthful in the cradle hold, though the vast majority of my moms are able to make the switch from football/cross cradle to cradle within a couple of weeks. Sometimes they have to go back to dominant hand (like the mom today -- she's been using cradle, baby is three weeks old, and he's getting sloppy at latching and isn't taking enough in his mouth. When we went back to dominant hand, the mother said it was much better). I'm sensitive to Karen's comment about moms feeling as though they are "stuck" in whatever position they learned in the hospital, and aren't able to make that transfer to the kind of position they see in all the books. So I hope we can get by that problem. It'll be interesting to see what comes up over time about latch. I hope we are all able to give up our own pet ways of doing things if something better comes along -- and that we are open to new ideas and new ways of trying things -- and that we realize there probably isn't just one way that is going to work for all mothers. It IS exciting, just as Diane said....even if some of us have to be pulled along, kicking & screaming all the way. I guess if we are moving, that's what is important! :>) Jan Barger, RN, MA, IBCLC, RLC Wheaton, Illinois www.lactationeducationconsultants.com *********************************************** To temporarily stop your subscription: set lactnet nomail To start it again: set lactnet mail (or digest) To unsubscribe: unsubscribe lactnet All commands go to [log in to unmask] The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html