If I understand Bob's argument, then his logic is basically this: because we can't really guarantee the purity of a given product, then we should make no real effort to do so, and offer no distinction to those who actually try. Although I do agree that certified organic standards are very difficult to achieve, I think we can look to the opposite for a baseline comparison. I have often made mental note of the thousands of acres of forage on divided highways (sweet clover, crown vetch, trefoil, etc.), wondering how much honey could be made from this untapped resource. I've also noticed some beautiful forage around dumps, wastewater treatment plants, and transfer stations (all such hive locations are forbidden in organic standards). I would never deliberately place hives in such environs simply because I couldn't sell such honey with a clear conscience. Undoubtedly, however, some beekepers do not share such pangs of conscience. Certified organic standards are quite rigid, and would seem to limit bees' access to undesirable elements. As such, to make the effort to adhere to certified organic principles simply places one in a different marketing camp. If a savvy beekeeper wishes to avail themselves of such a market, so be it. I have no real ambition to participate in organic standards, simply because most of Vermont is a bit too populated to insure the necessary minimum distances from potential contamination, not to mention the difficulties of organic mite control. If someone were willing to do the legwork to find such sites, adhere to such stringent standards, and take the obvious lumps from mite losses, why shouldn't they enjoy a special market status, and the obvious premium price for their product? Isn't this at the heart of what we call "free market enterprise"? Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::