Bob wrote: > Science (and the sugar lobby) say (for now) > "there if no proof the use of > refined sugar causes diabetes. Keith wrote: I have never heard anyone put it quite that way, and again, you are grossly oversimplifying. . This is a no win debate. James posted the sugar lobby's side and I posted the other side. Simple is best . Bob wrote: > AVERAGE American ingests 100 pounds of > refinned sugar per year. > > Average American use of honey is about one > pound per year. Keith wrote: Many, many reasons for this. Lets not forget the biggie - it is far far easier to produce a 10lb sac of sugar than a nice 10 lb jar of honey. Honey was the worlds sweetener till around 1700. In my opinion if Franz Achard in 1801 had not discovered a process of refining sugar from beet roots honey would still be the worlds sweetener. Keith wrote: So it is more available, and is used more, that simply does not prove that sugar is inherently deficient in some way based on its level of refinement. James posted accurate information on the make up of sugar which when looked at seems to indicate little difference between honey and sugar as used by the body . THERE ARE HOWEVER DIFERENCES! However because of the refining process many believe that the refining process is the problem. Hard to prove but case studies of diabetes people *seems* to point to refined sugar as a cause of diabetes. The world reknown Dr. F.G. Banting ,the discover of insulin, because of which millions around the world are alive today thought refined white sugar was going to be a big problem in the future.His prediction of record diabetes in the future if the people of the world did not stop their love of refined sugar has in my opinion came to pass. DIABETES IS GROWING AT RECORD RATES IN THE U.S. TODAY. Not all these people are couch potatoes and diabetes runs in their family. I went to a funeral of a diabetic friend last Saturday. Workaholic with no history of diabetes in his family. He did love sweets and tea heavy with refined sugar. Bob wrote; > I would like to see the refined sugar and pure > honey average use reversed. Keith wrote: Sure, nice thought, but the market would never bear it. Every journey begans with the first step. Keith wrote: Again, may I ask (and get this discuccion back on the origional track), what changes are wrought by refinement that make sugar As I posted above there is at present no way to prove refined sugar is bad for you just as there was no way for the people to prove tobacco smoking caused cancer. Looking at use habits in case studies is all the information we have to go on. Tobacco has never been proven to cause lung cancer unless I missed something. Both Keith and James have indicated that the high use of sugar is a cause for diabetes. Can you provide scientific information to support your claim which the sugar lobby lawyers couldn't defend against? I thought not! I believe like Keith and Jim that the high use of sugar is indeed a factor but not provable in a court of law or to the FDA when sugar lobby lawyers are present. Keith wrote: Keith "not a member of the sugar lobby, just a little ol' zoo veterinarian" Benson As a vet why do you recommend not to give dogs and cats candy with refined sugar? Are our bodies so different that we can process refined sugar but not other mammals? Bob Ps. Ready to move on to beekeeping subjects!