Leslie Bruder replies to Deryk Barker: >>Moreover, where in music, are the equivalents of theorems and proofs? > >Key to understanding the relationship(s) between music and mathematics >is to see them as symbolic systems, languages basically, which could >possibly be reduced further to "code." All that means is that both are symbolic systems. Okay. So are literature and painting. So is Bingo. So is highway signage. One thing that mathematics allows you to do is to predict the outcome of a situation you haven't met before, related to the real world or not. This is, of course, accomplished by building on a collection of theorems and proofs. Mathematics may allow you to describe something you already know (in that sense, EVERYTHING -- or nearly -- is math). But without that predictive power, there's no real advantage to prefer a mathematical description over a loose, verbal one, except that mathematics, as the Queen of Sciences, enjoys the prestige of science among a non-scientific community, whose only contact with science or mathematics comes at third- or fourth-hand through engineering and technology. Steve Schwartz