Hello Bill and All, Bill wrote: > I don't think that this should give us much of a hope for visual > identification unless we happen to keep cordovan Italians and see that they get superceded; then we might know that test time is at hand. I agree with Bill on his comments. One reason I posted the post was to show the person on the list which posted. "Africanized bees in Arizona! I don't think so!" that I certainly do not think for a minute that AHb is the figment of a researchers mind hunting for research dollars. I have dug deep into AHB research. I looked last night at over 200 sites before finding the capensis information I posted today. The point about primitive methods Bill is because in researching the actual abstracts of AHb research I have found very primitive methods used to determine africanization. Wing venation has been around for decades (invented by Dr.Warwick Kerr) and DNA for many years. One of the most famous studies done on the africanization process was done by a person I admire so will leave the name out unless pressed further. Here was the way the hives used in the test in the foreign country were rated from the abstract into three classes for the test. category :strongly africanized 1.colony manipulation resulted in more than ten stings, bees not calm on the combs,queens hard to see,brood area extensive category: intermediate: 2. zero to ten stings ,bees controllable with smoke category :European: 3.strongly European: two or fewer stings, bees remained on comb,queens easily located ,brood not covering entire face of comb. The above sounds like a method a beekeeper might choose for his private research not a world famous researcher writing an abstract. No FABIS testing or DNA. Up to a few years ago AHB was simply passing through on its way north. Now AHb seems to have decided to make its new home in the areas shown on the USDA map I posted. We need to take a closer look now and use DNA testing.. Look what happened when Denis Anderson took a closer look at varroa, *varroa distructor* . Dr. Harbo and Dr. Harris realized when trying to raise a varroa tolerant bee that the method of selection by survivors with the lowest mite levels was flawed. On taking a closer look we found *SMR.* In my opinion we need to look carefully at AHb in Arizona and try and figure out what is going on before we are looking at a problem which could have a big impact on the beekeeping industry. The August issue of the American Bee Journal came today. On page 571 is part three in a series about South Africa beekeeping AND the cape bee by Dr.Wyatt A. Mangum . On page 573 Dr. Mangum makes the following comment which I whole heartily agree with: "Perhaps the cape bee problem will make us more aware about a possible accidental importation of cape bees into the U.S." Dave A. of the list posted " only one capensis trait worker would be all that's needed to start a problem in European bees. Unless Blane White (interesting article about Blane on page 576 of the same issue written by Don Jackson) and myself need new glasses and our eyes were lying there is a strong psuedo queen hive in Arizona which Dr. Hoffman showed us in her slides. If those slides were indeed taken in 1990 as one BEE-L person suggested what *could* the problem be like at present twelve years later? I assume Dr. Hoffman did not respond back to Allen? Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. Coverups only complicate a problem as in the case of Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.