> Surely we can also agree that capensis genes being carried with the bees > entering Arizona (AHB) which can be directly traced back to the original > Kerr release is possible (if not likely). The 300 mile per year march of AHb > has been long documented. We know capensis queens were brought in by Kerr. Well, we have been around and around this on this list and elsewhere, but -- trigger words aside -- what is the upshot of the whole thing? We know that in the fullness of time, all sorts bees will eventually reach North America and Europe, and Aus and NZ, and the rest of the world, if not by riding containers ships, then by deliberate smuggling by beekeepers. Many of us have speculated for decades now, whether capensis is here, and also whether poorer wintering in Canadian bees compared to a half-century ago is related to the importation and distribution of African stock by the USDA many years ago in the era when most Canadian stock came up annually from southern US suppliers. The question -- IMO -- is not really whether there is capensis in Lusbys' stock, but if there is capensis in any or all American stock, and what the consequences, if any, might be. As I recall, capensis and scutellata existed side-by-side in Africa without problems for either bee until relatively recently. I assume people even moved bees from one area to the other over the past hundred years or more. Then something happened. Does anyone know what, for sure? It seems to have something to do with introduction of modern beekeeping practices and migratory beekeeping. Are problems like the one in Africa likely to happen in North America if capensis is found or brought here? Does anyone know? I have heard reports of capensis being openly brought to Europe and intermingled with the local bees there without any observed adverse effects on local populations. While some of the bee behaviours reported in G D-Hs talk do not sound very encouraging for those who wish to control their stock and breed bees (honey producers), they sound exiting for those who want bees that can take care of themselves (pollinators and hobbyists). As I said, if there was mention in the talk of hives dwindling and dying after invasion, I do not remember it. My impression was the opposite. Some written material from that talk would be most useful here. As I recall, G D-H chose here words very carefully and in the talk I heard did not seem to imply either good or evil in what she described -- she discussed the phenomena. allen