A short comment from Erik Osterlund to the below: Yes I'm a "seller", of a very limited number of queens, beside the breeding and testing work, I'm involved in. I have another occupation that takes most of my time. If I'm trustable is up to anyone to try to find out. That's the problem with all people you listen to, you have to try to get a picture of the person communicating. One thing concering tests is that it's essential if they are testable and possible to repeat. And if there are others that could confirm or not what is being said and tested. To be noted, as I made clear in my former comment, is that the tests cited below by /vov/, of which one was mentioned by me, that done by the Swedish University of Agriculture (at the end of my former posting), is that these scientific tests made, only are focused on the reproduction success of the mite, not the survivability of the bee colony. Survivability involves more parameters than mite reproduction. Also the test done by Landesanstalt fur Bienenkunde (mentioned in ABJ -99 article) dealt with mite reproduction during the "first season" of mite infestation. And again, is any paper published dealing with the relation between mite reproduction and survivability of the bee colony. There are many questions that could be asked and dealt with in such a paper. To be noted here is that tolerant bees in South and Latin America normally have "several thousand" of mites according to Martin and Kryger" in Apidologie 33:51-61. Unfortunately I know of no university doing survivability tests of beekeeper managed bees concerning mites, but Erickson in Arizona with local bees (presented in ABJ). Rinderer on Primorsky bees did one test (Apidologie 32:381) that possibly could be attributed under such a heading. But no test dealing with other bees. But there are possibilities to do so of course. There is also a possibility to take contact with Mr Karlsen on the island Bornholm. There are more than one type of bee that can survive the mite in normal way of beekeeping. This survivability I'm convinced is a complex matter with more than one parameter involved. Let's concentrate on survivability and together try to find out the different parameters. And look positiveky on each others efforts. It would surprize me if this is not what we all want. Best regards and thanks for being able to in this way to take part on your list Erik Osterlund ----------------- I wrote: >>Just a few comments from me on the subject of survivability of >>Elgon bees in connection with varroa mites. I have written two >>articles where initial trials were described in Israel and Denmark, >>in ABJ May -99 and in ABJ article which can be read here: >>http://beesource.com/pov/osterlund/abjmar2001.htm /vov/ commented: >Those articles were written by a "seller" and must be regarded as >"advertizing" rather than objective descriptions of facts. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx