But Jan the babies you mentioned all had a "latch" problem! :-) Either they were too far from the breast or too sleepy And you're right it is all over intervention that caused these "latch" problems!! All of these interventions is what we have to keep working to eliminate. And I don't have much energy this sunny cold am :-( Sincerely, Pat in SNJ *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html