P-O Gustafsson commenting on the Thomas Fondoir mentioned that whilst having a similar piece of apparatus, the double skinned heating container did not use oil as a temperature of more than 100°C was not needed. >From my experience, an oil temperature of 85°C is sufficient to cause separation of wax and honey - with the mix reaching around 45°C. Also, using oil, there is no problem with water vapour drifting around the honey house. Oil also reduces problems of liquid expansion. Alan, comments relating to debris from comb: It must be realised that this "fondoir" is designed for honey/wax separation during comb honey extraction. The amount of debris is minimal, and that which does occur is easily removed with a fine sieve like spoon. I agree, melting down old wax from frames would not be sensible. Since the apparatus was never designed for such use, any resulting claim against fire/damage would not be covered by building insurance. Sure, spinners remove honey from wax in a clean way, but one is left with the wax to deal with. Also, on the Canola crop, when the honey is starting to crystallize, as it often does under certain flow conditions, this is removed from the wax efficiently. As for start up time - one removes most of the honey at the end of the extracting period, then the oil is left to run at a temperature of 40°C. Heat loss is minimal due to the insulation. Agreed, it is not perfect, but what is? Would be interesting to see how it would run with slabs of uncapped material rather than the hash that results from the chain flail uncapper! Peter