Huestis, With all due respect, I wonder if you read the whole message, including this part: >The phenotype of the Dark honeybee has not substantially changed, >neither in the last millenium in Europe nor by transplantation to >the southern hemisphere (Tasmania and New Zealand) during the last >150 years. -- from "The Dark European Honey Bee" by Friedrich >Ruttner, 1990 Ruttner is saying that *he measured* bees found preserved from a thousand years ago, bees preserved from 150 years ago, and from today, and they are not different in size. If there was a substantial downsizing in the past 100 years *don't you think he would have mentioned it?* Why would ne not mention it? And please, I never said that bees were made bigger by foundation. I was pointing to the fact the Apis mellifera mellifera, having evolved in cold climates, has always been a fairly big bee, compared to African and Asian types. (Note: Not all temperate bees are bigger, not all non European bees are smaller. There are exceptions.) pb