In message <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] writes > It >must be one of the causes of beekeeper's back. Let me very blunt. The two primary causes of beekeepers back are poor lifting position and lifting weights that are too heavy, and these two are inter-related. If you were working as a manual labourer in a responsible UK Company you would receive training in all aspects of lifting and your subsequent performance on the job would be monitored. Persistent lifting of excessive weights would take you down a course towards termination of employment. It is a sign of outdated thinking that regards such damage to people as an inevitable outcome. Heavy lifting can always be avoided by careful planning. Regards -- Mike Rowbottom (clearly feeling very tetchy) HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK