Bill, What you say regarding the "expert" beekeepers is very true - it is vital that all reasonable doubt of damage is being caused by other factors is either removed or taken in to account. Here in France many hives that have "suffered" from "Gaucho" would have died anyway due to poor treatment against V.j. and it is too easy to blame an outside factor beyond the beekeepers control. But at the same time a pesticide hit does not help the overall health of a colony - esp. if the toxin delivers a sub-lethal effect. E.F.B. is well known to raise its ugly head when colonies have or are under stress and then conversely it is the Agro-chemical firms who fall into the trap. They then have the tendency to blame the disease for the problems and not the toxin. So as you say - "experts" won't wish for outsiders to look in to the products. It can't be them so it has to be the "beekeeper"! Neither side can have it both ways as I am hoping that you agree. Peter