Wow. Thanks for giving me something to think about. I have some friends who are doctors so I try really hard not to lump them all together. (I hate when anyone lumps any group together. ie. ALL single mothers are on welfare, or ALL single mothers are slobs...) There are many misinformed physicians and physicians with outdated information. My group tries to help educate doctors and other people about the facts of breastfeeding. I hope that we never say "Stupid Doctors" (especially since we have two members who ARE doctors) Andrea E. Duval Staff Member Moms4Milk http://www.moms4milk.org -----Original Message----- From: Lactation Information and Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Catharine Decker Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 9:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: "stupid doctors" (long comment from a dr) Kathleen Bruce wrote: > One comment....please, let 's try to avoid terms like "Stupid > doctors." There are better and less petulant and personal ways of getting > our point made without labelling or grouping professionals. > > I know that no group of professionals would appreciate being lumped into a > grouping such as this, dumb LLL Leaders, breastfeeding-police IBCLCs, etc. > > Let's just drop the generalizations and get on with the great discussions. > Thank-you Kathleen. As a family practice doctor and long-time lactnet lurker, I really appreciate this sentiment. I do not think I am a "stupid doctor" and no matter how hard I try not to take it personally (there certainly are *plenty* of doctors out there giving stupid advice re: breastfeeding and I get just as outraged as you all) I cannot help but bristle every time I read broad generalizations condemning my entire profession. Remember, we are all human, including doctors and as such, we respond emotionally to such attacks. Knee-jerk attacks beget knee-jerk reactions and really damage current and future relations. I shouldn't even have to say this, but... Despite recent allegations to the contrary, most physicians are decent people who are in medicine b/c they care and want to help people and they work very hard and have sacrificed much time and energy for their patients. To slam the whole profession is no more fair than to express any other prejudice against any other group. If I got on lactnet and criticized Christians or Blacks or any other group, noone would tolerate it for a minute. Yet, the chorus starts to sing when someone criticizes doctors. And when you lash out against some members of a group, keep in mind that the remaining members of the group are more likely to side with 'their own' than with you. So you wind up alienating not just the physicians who are truly deserving of criticism, but also those who might otherwise be on 'your side'. Please don't do this. Please don't drive away doctors who might be open to joining the ranks of the pro-breastfeeding crusade. I know you're angry that some physicians have given horrible, terrible advice. I'm just as outraged. But don't tar every physician with the same brush. Please remember that this behavior is exactly the sort of thing which destroys your relationship and your credibility with physicians. I have long been supportive of breastfeeding and wished to encourage and help my patients with breastfeeding, even before I knew much about it. In medical school I received very little education about breastfeeding and much of it was incorrect. Thus, even though I believed I was doing a decent job of helping my breastfeeding patients, I was not. I had a general awareness of some of the benefits of breastfeeding, but a weak conviction for how vastly superior it was to artificial feeding, also very little knowledge of how to manage breastfeeding problems. But I was still 'pro-breastfeeding' in the overall sense and had someone approached me in a positive way and led me to better resources, I'd have welcomed it. Instead, the negative, anti-MD attitudes of some lactation professionals and lay supporters actually *stood in the way* of my becoming better educated in the early days. As I said, I wanted to give good advice re: breastfeeding, but didn't know a whole lot. So I would look up information. Fortunately, I had picked up a copy of "Breastfeeding and Human Lactation" at a bookstore clearance sale, so I had some good info. But when I went searching elsewhere for information on lactation, I was frequently slapped in the face by this sort of vehement anti-doctor sentiment. And let me tell you, anywhere I would encounter it, I would turn away and look for another resource. In the early days, I was referred to lactnet by an LC acquaintance, but I was so totally turned off by some egregious comments against doctors that I assumed the people on lactnet were a bunch of extremists and nutcases who didn't have any medical knowledge at all. In my mind, people who were so wrong about my character were not people with knowledge I could trust. I would add here that the medical profession in general tends to be pretty conservative whereas a lot of lactnetters and other breastfeeding supporters tend to be advocates/supporters of alternative medicine, herbals, homeopathy, etc. Hence, at the time I further concluded that lactation professionals and supporters were radicals who were against modern medicine and against me personally, promoting alternative medicine instead. So I concluded that what they had so say was nonsense and I trusted instead the information that came from mainstream medical sources such as my older and more experienced MD peers, who often had old and outdated ideas about breastfeeding. Now, setting aside your own position for a moment, put yourself in the position of doctors such as myself (especially the young and impressionable and easily offended types). Would you be likely to embrace advice from someone whom you suspect to be: a) hostile towards you and your peers, b) hostile towards the body of knowledge which you study and practice, c) promoting an alternative belief structure which you at best feel to be potentially helpful as a complement to your practice or at worst you may even suspect to be dangerous (ie: being opposed to childhood immunization, which is a belief among some alternative practitioners, not all, of course, but in my experience that's been the single most damaging issue that peds/fps have against alternative practitioners). Considering the matter from this perspective, does it really surprise anyone that doctors aren't coming around as quickly as they should be? Frankly, I'm amazed I got past all that in the early days and made it through to the point I am currently at. If it hadn't been for the fact that the 'lactivist' community rose to my support at a critical time early in my own breastfeeding days, I may always have remained wary and suspicious of what I considered to be 'radical' breastfeeding information and maintained the mainstream cultural view (as in "sure breast is best, but lots of people can't do it, don't feel guilty, look at all the formula fed babies who turn out just fine...yada...yada...."). Instead, I've been totally won over, galvanized, convicted... In case any one here might remember, about four years ago there was a doctor who was told she was not permitted breastfeed her infant daughter at a Sears portrait studio ("because children might see and that's indecent!"). She called the national customer service center and complained, but was brushed off. So she turned to her internet friends and asked them to pass on the word and write to Sears portrait studios to complain. Many lactnetters and other breastfeeding supporters responded. Literally *hundreds* of emails poured in from all over the world. The portrait studio people took notice and took measures to make sure the incident was not repeated. The doctor was overwhelmingly impressed by the response. The doctor also had cause to really read up on her breastfeeding literature and was duly impressed and encouraged to continue reading. A month or so later, when her baby went through a very difficult nursing strike, she was bound and determined to keep nursing this baby whom so many people had fought for. So she turned to the wonderful lactation folks for advice and learned a lot. And stuck around to learn more. She is now a tireless promoter and supporter of breastfeeding. And of course, as anyone can guess, she is *me*. And that baby is now almost four years old, and continues tandem nursing along with her 18 month old sister. Thanks again folks. ;-) My children thank you. My apologies if anyone was offended by any of what I have written. I have been wanting to post something like this for years, but have always held back. But recent discussions about "why pediatricians may have a slanted view of breastfeeding" and of course "stupid doctors" have encouraged me to speak up. My purpose is not to berate or blame anyone. But we must admit that the relationship between MDs and LCs is sometimes strained. And I think we can safely say that we really need to 'win over' more physicians. Thus, I think a reminder to this effect might be helpful. Keep in mind that many MDs and other people may be reading lactnet archives unbeknownst to you and that may be their *only* contact with lactation professionals. Whatever impression they come away with may be lasting. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. -- Catharine Decker, MD, FAAFP Mama to tandem nursing Charlotte (04-11-97) & Clarissa (07-28-99) mailto:[log in to unmask] PS: A little encouragement for you 'alternative' providers out there--my experience with breastfeeding has really opened my mind to other ideas and practices outside of conventional medicine. :-) *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html