In a message dated 2/12/01 3:33:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << Hi, Wajih. The easiest way to control swarming while having the least disruption otherwise is to install a queen excluder under the bottom box (above the bottom board). Swarms then will self-retrieve in less than two hours. You have to check for queen cells every 10 days while the QE is in place. I presume the "swarm fever" which continues will detract from their concentration on new nectar but all the bees will stay in the hive. Dan >> Ha! As one who has tried this technique, I guarantee that it will make more problems than it will solve. For one thing, you will have a problem with drones clogging the excluder. I've seen so many dead drones on the excluder that the bees cannot pass at all. The bees are apt to get really mean. Furthermore the swarm urge is so strong that a mere excluder simply will not stop it. And cutting queen cells will keep the bees demoralized, take a LOT of time, and eventually fail as well, as you will invariably miss one cell, usually a little weak one. The bees will exit with the little queen, who can easily squeeze thru the excluder. Even if you succeed in capturing the swarm, it isn't worth much because the queen is junk. If you only have a couple hives, and unlimited time that you can waste, you might consider cutting queen cells as an avocation that's better than drinking and gambling. Honeybee queens are programed to swarm in their second year. Why do so many beekeepers waste time and resources fighting the inevitable? I suppose there is a mix of the human urge to tinker with the human urge to be masters of all. I think it is wiser to try to think like bees, to help them do what they want to do, rather than fight with them. We might play a little trick now and then to get them to make some minor changes, but we have to really leave them mostly in charge. We can only take the things we know about their behavior and try to work with that. We cannot change their behavior. As stated before, we know that queens are programed to swarm in their second year. A young queen will swarm, but only if it is pushed to do so by crowding in the brood chamber. So, if we want to prevent swarming entirely, we can requeen all hives in the fall, or early spring, and keep plenty of room available for the queen by watching for congested brood chambers, and by early supering. Suppose we cannot get queens in the fall or early spring, or we cannot afford them? Then work with the natural urge of the bees. Swarming is the natural urge of the bees to reproduce. And we can help them do it. Normally we will have some dead hives which need replacement, or we want to have some bees to sell for extra income, so this works right into our program as well. This puts us right back into our original idea; making nucs. As soon as you see swarm cells, make nucs. Handle frames with queen cells very gently as queens at some points in their development will be damaged even by turning the cell upside down. Just make sure you have one or two queen cells on the frames of the brood you use for the nuc. If you see "ripe" cells, with the cap being chewed and darkened color, then you don't have to be so cautious. You can even carefully cut them off with a sharp blade, and handling them by the base so you won't crush them, and press them against the upper part of the comb to attach. When you finish, you have helped the bees do what they wanted to do: reproduce. The only change, from their point of view is that they did it a few days earlier. They will happily settle down to work, and you will have not wasted a lot of time fighting their natural urge. You will also not lost the productivity of the swarms you would lose. The neighbors are not terrorized by your lost swarms. So all are happy. Another advantage: you will have had a chance to look thru the hives, examining all comb, replacing old rotten wooden parts, etc. One time thru the bees each year is plenty, and you have chosen the best time of all: when the bees are preoccupied with their urge to reproduce. Tearing hives apart more than once each year will cut the productivity of the bees. It is still a good idea to look at a frame or two to check the brood pattern of the queen and check for disease, but don't go thru them frame by frame, unless there is a problem. I have a trailer that is just the right height to be a workbench. The tailgate of a pickup truck will work almost as well. When I go thru the bees on my annual spring "working the bees," I pick up each hive in turn and set it on the workbench. I place an empty hive with all good wooden parts in the place of the live one. As I work I remember that the field bees will be returning to the new hive on the original spot. If I make up nucs on the site I always keep in mind that some of the bees will fly back to the original site, so I give them extra bees. Or I can put them into a nuc box that can be closed with screens, to be removed beyond flight distance, when I am through for the day. For a good strong hive, I often can put the original queen back on the original site in a new box, with two or three frames of sealed brood. She will quickly supply eggs, and this hive will quickly build back to a good strength. The rest of the brood is used for nuc building. If there are queen cells (and there often are, because I time this as best I can to have cells), I don't bother to look for the queen. I just make sure all parts of the split have cells. If there are no cells, I can either cut ripe cells from another hive, or mark them to get a cell or a queen in a cage the next day. In making nucs sometimes you use frames from more than one hive. During a flow, you can mix bees with no problem; they all have their bellies full, and they will not fight. But a nuc that has been given the old queen, and no cells, should only be made with her own bees and brood. The bees, even will full bellies, will sometimes kill the queen. I like to give cells to all parts, if I can, because the old queen will often lead out a later swarm after they have build back up to strength. It's an interesting time, my favorite time of the year. You have a half dozen hives open at once, and have to keep your "head on your shoulders" as to which one has what. The sweetness of nectar is heavy on the air (maybe on your clothes as well), and the bees are contentedly working away, often completely ignoring you and your machinations. Sometimes you get to see the dancing bees. You haven't lived until you've seen the dancing bees. Sometimes there is more adventure. You have a bunch of hives open, and there comes a sudden thunderstorm. Now you are running around trying to get everything covered, the bees are stinging your wet shirt (and getting through), and you are telling yourself what a fool you are for thinking you could get on with a couple more before the storm hit. The only time I would ever use a queen excluder UNDER the brood chamber is after you have CAUGHT a swarm and put it in a box with no brood. Sometimes a swarm will decide not to stay in the home you have provided. If you prevent the queen from leaving until she has produced some brood, they will generally stay. I remember one time when I had installed a nervous swarm and kept the queen restrained in a queen cage. They all flew out and went to the woods. I waited about ten minutes, and they all returned. I was just about ready to load them and take them home, when they took off again. They did this three times, and returned three times, after which I took them home. The next morning, I let the queen out of the cage. I should have used the excluder method to hold her a little longer. The bees had already selected a home site, and they would not be stopped by moving. They probably didn't realize they had moved. At any rate they left and were lost to me. Dave Green The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com