Bill Pirkle: >This is a very interesting subject so I'm would like to offer it as a >thread.. Is all music either program or not? Is there music that is both? >What is the difference in terms or melody, harmony, rhythm, tempo, form & >structure, etc. Which came first? > >If I wanted to write program music, what would I NOT do. If I wanted >to write non-program music, what would I NOT do.? What music is so close >that informed music listeners argue over which category it belongs in. >And finally, which music falls in neither category? Anyone? "Program music" is a term applied mainly to some romantic symphonic works which have a literary "underpinning" or a descriptive intention. Many baroque instrumental works have it too, but terms are always a little arbitraries. Program music has no distinctive features in melody, harmony and tempo, but there are, however, some interesting aspects related to form and thematic links. PM can take the shape of a symphony (i.e: Berlioz's "Symphonie Fantastique", Mahler's 2nd. etc.) or of a single composition without breaks between movements (symphonic poems, as Liszt's or Richard Strauss' or Thchaikowsky's "overtures"). Being musical form very close to literary narrative (both are based in time), the composer may use traditional schemes as sonate form (the opposition and struggle between two different themes) or create a form "ad-hoc" which imitates the structure of the literary narrative. How can you imitate a narrative structure in music is a good question (members of the list: arouse, for you must justify me!), and depends on the case, but I think that it is the "quid" of program music. However, in many occasions, if you don't know that the literary reference exists, you don't know that you are listening a programmatic work. All this depends on the composer's intentions: if he adds a title to his new symphony, and he says that the first theme represents his girlfriend or his dog...maybe you will not know this until you read the CD's booklet or the composer's biography. Pablo Massa [log in to unmask]