Shallow latch signs from the outside: - baby's chin and nose are not resting on the breast (though if they are, you can't take it for granted that the latch is deep enough, mom may have just pulled baby against the soft breast) - lips are pulled inward (sign that baby was closing mouth as he came to breast) - lips are flanged so much they are doubled over - and often the lips are doing the sucking instead of the tongue. Excessive lip movement is a signal the latch is shallow. - dimpling of the cheeks during jaw opening means there is too much airspace in the mouth, in other words, it is not full of breast as it should be. (potential confounder-this may occur in premies due to reduced fat pads as well.) - nipple comes out beveled and with a compression stripe (looking like an unused lipstick). - maternal pain. -- Catherine Watson Genna, IBCLC New York City mailto:[log in to unmask] *********************************************** The LACTNET mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned LISTSERV(R) list management software together with L-Soft's LSMTP(TM) mailer for lightning fast mail delivery. For more information, go to: http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html