Don takes me to task for suggesting that denying kids the chance to see/hear Birtwistle's opera Gawain was to do with imposing one's views on the little dears and said that Osborne and I were "taking our personal preferences and biases and projecting them on to children; that's not reasonable." Not at all, and I shouldn't have used the expression "wrong end of the spectrum" but I was in a hurry! The question, which is more or less self-evident - for those who know the years of listening experience that needs to be brought to this (dreadful) stuff in order to survive it (and I'm not there yet and probably never will be!) was "that it would put them off opera for life." I don't doubt that for a minute although there might just possibly be one mini-Boulez in the making amongst the crowd! But let me ask, please, in respect of the remark about "personal preferences" why it is that one must, and indeed does, guide and direct children in their education with respect to every other area of the arts? When it comes to music we are oft told that to tell them this is good, this is bad, try this, don't try that (at least not yet, darling etc..) is regarded as wrong (to the point of bigotry) and that they should be left to swim on their own? That must be why 95% of them only succumb blindly to peer pressure and spend their time listening to ... <snip - moment of self-censorship here; Roger H. will know what I mean!>. But one thing is fairly certain. A child will, just as Don did, dislike most of what is thrown at him. It's part of the system called life! My three kids did it all that way and drove up to dispair and yet, by their late twenties/ early thirties, had attended the Ring and the 3 other major operas at Bayreuth, well read, informed and voluntarily. Two of them now apply for tickets every year (fat chance - my own annual "get kn*tt*d letter just arrived). I agree the range must be wide but one does not, as a rule, project one's biases but rather one selects those opportunities where a child may be confronted with the recognised *great* masterpieces whether one likes them or not (including in my case, and for example, the New World symphony & Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Conc., both which I happen to hate due to over exposure). My father exposed me to a wide range of operas but they were by Puccini, Verdi, Mozart, Smetana, Offenbach, J.Strauss, Humperdink (of course!) and Cav & Pag (what's up with the Met's tenor in Cav tonight?). He was wrong about Mozart - too difficult for most pre-teens. But these works were proven successes, accessible and full of good "toons" and allowed one to develop an interest and an idea of European musical culture. But Birtwistle? Excuse me. Don, you're being too "correct"! Kids need guidance. Even mis-guided guidance is better than Gawain. Incidentally another London critic has written this week to say that after seeing this work three times he thinks it is appalling. John G. Deacon Home page: www.ctv.es/USERS/j.deacon