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BEE-L  March 2011

BEE-L March 2011

Subject:

Re: Imported bees

From:

Bob Harrison <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:28:39 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (96 lines)

?> There are still isolated pockets of the descendants of Amm.

I personally do not know of any bees with a large amount of AMM genetics.
i am in my 51 st. year involved with beekeeping I can clearly remember 
working AMM. In fact my first hives were a large part AMM.

Few have ever asked what it was like to work the bee. I quickly converted to 
Italians. In 1979 I bought the hives of a deceased beekeeper named Bruce 
Sunderland from his widow( died in his bee yard) and the beekeeper had some 
fairly pure AMM. I kept a couple of AMM hives around for a few years but 
eventually the Italians replaced the AMM.


>Lots of times people lament the wisdom of using the Italian bee, preferring 
>the Carniolan or some other mixed lineage. However, nobody ever talks about 
>how good the old Amm were.

Slang for Amm was "German bee" or "German blacks" . Not sure why England was 
never talked about. The bees were very dark and had many undiserable traits 
in my opinion. The bees were quick to sting . I wore tennis shoes back then 
working bees and the bees were always trying to sting around the feet. Some 
bees always pop the veil when upset but the blacks seemed to work low.

The bees wintered good and used less stores but were late in spring to 
expand the nest.

*I never purposely replaced a black queen. * The bees were plenty workable.

>People like Sue Cobey have lobbied to get access to European bees to 
>improve the stock here, but it is Carniolan and Caucasian stock they seek; 
>nobody wants Amm for their special qualities.

I think the big reason goes back to the point made by Peter Edwards that 
Brother Adam said so many bad things about AMM ( and all serious beekeepers 
have read his writtings) that most felt Amm should be passed over.I have 
always been impressed with brother Adam and his beekeeping but have to agree 
with Peter Edwards that Brother Adam (through his writtings)  put AMm in a 
class perhaps the bee did not deserve.


>To an outsider looking at the UK, France, or Spain for example, it seems a 
>matter of preferring the native bees because "they're our bees" -- like 'em 
>or not.

I am sure the above factors in but in many ways Amm is suited for the 
weather of Europe.
I was a member of the Irish beekeeping list many years ago and learned 
quickly many Europe beekeepers felt Brother Adam was wrong about AMM. Those 
beekeepers were quick to point out the faults of my beloved Italian bee. 
The Irish beekeepers were interested in U.S. beekeeping and overlooked my 
fondness for the Italian bee.

The most common complaint most have against the bee ( not commercial 
beekeepers) is their grumpy nature.
I remember one beautiful summer day with a strong clover flow on. I pulled 
into a yard with a single AMM hive.( among 20 Italians).  Stepped out of the 
truck to have a single black bee light on my face and place a stinger.
I actually laughed which shocked my helper and I said:
" I would have bet money the bee which would sting for no reason would be 
from the black German bee hive".

While on the subject of bee races:

I do not really care for the Caucasians ( and I have had many of those 
hives) nor the Carniolans ( or NWC) but still have plenty of those around 
( due to trouble getting Italian queens and all the queens available were 
carniolans)

The race of bee is simply a matter of personal preference and *all* races 
are more alike than not alike.

The best Italian queens I have ever used came from breeders which were 
selected from the best hives from the year before.

Some of the worst queens have came from breeders which use too many 
selection criteria.

choosing from the best queens from the year before with the traits you seek 
seems to always work.

choosing based on perfect bee parts and a half dozen other things can give 
you offspring with many good traits but perhaps not "prolific" or another of 
the important traits many commercial beekeepers feel they need.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison
Missouri U.S.

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