At 10:18 PM 3/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Date:     Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:18:11 -0500
>Reply-To: Lactation Information and Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
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>Subject:  LACTNET Digest - 4 Mar 1997 - Special issue
>To:       Recipients of LACTNET digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 17 messages totalling 422 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
>  1. acne
>  2. Bioavailability of minerals (DHA article)
>  3. Formula Reps
>  4. pumping twins mom
>  5. Breastfeeding Incentives
>  6. Down Syndrome baby and bf
>  7. brfdg stats
>  8. Hospital Security
>  9. cranial manipulations (2)
> 10. so many oz pumped/served/Pearl
> 11. Insufficient Glandular Tissue
> 12. GOne With the Wind
> 13. Sheila Innis
> 14. Surgeon General
> 15. Downs Syndrome babies & A&D
> 16. WIC Incentives
>
>
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>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 15:38:28 -0800
>From:    "Donna Zitzelberger BSN, CLE" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: acne
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>
>I talked to a friend of a mother of twins who has cystic acne, which (I
>think) she has had a problem with before pregnancy/breastfeeding as well.
>She was told that it could not be treated while she was breastfeeding.  What
>exactly is the treatment for cystic acne?  This mom continues to breastfeed
>her 15 month old twins (thank goodness, as they are highly allergic to dairy
>products!)
>
>Donna Zitzelberger RN BSN IBCLC
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 18:51:41 -0500
>From:    Margery Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Bioavailability of minerals (DHA article)
>
>For those who are surprised by the quote regarding bioavailability of
>minerals in human milk (Washington Post article of 3/4/97) one can gain
>insight into Dr. Ronald Kleinman's depth of knowledge in this area by
>reading the discussion of breastfeeding in the book he co-authored "Let Them
>Eat Cake." I actually recommend the book now and then. It discusses the
>counterproductiveness of micro-managing a child's food intake and diet
>choices. However, the breastfeeding information discounts "advantages" of
>human milk in developed countries (it doesn't get close to addressing the
>hazards of abm) and relegates feeding choice to merely a style-of-feeding
>decision.
>
>Did anyone else enjoy the comment made by the USDA fellow who said the
>formula companies were acting wisely by not rushing to add DHA since the
>companies might be sued if their product caused harm. Yeah? Since when?
>(Unless DHA causes babies to keel over and perish on the spot, no one will
>notice IMO).
>
>Margery Wilson, IBCLC
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:17:44 -0800
>From:    "Donna Zitzelberger BSN, CLE" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Formula Reps
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>
>I am amazed that you have a formula rep who has had a baby.  All our reps
>have been men or young,single or newly married women who haven't got an
>ounce of fat on their bodies and wear VERY short skirts AND speak as they
>know everything and anything about infant nutrition.  We once had a pregnant
>rep.  Whenever she tried to hound me about formula gift packs, I responded
>with -- "talk to me after you have your baby and AFTER you breastfeed".  She
>ended up breastfeeding during maternity leave only.  She didn't return to
>our hospital as she was promoted (what an honor - yes, I am being
>sarcastic).  Her associate (who wears even shorter skirts and is EVEN
>skinnier and younger) told me she stopped breastfeeding when she returned to
>work because THERE WERE TOO MANY MEN AROUND!!!!! (yes I am shouting).  This
>is a young professional woman who I am sure is working hard to be "one of
>the guys" in the professional world.  When are women going to realize they
>can be women, breastfeeding and all, and be professional too!!!!  And, isn't
>it interesting that there are so many men in the formula business?  Could it
>be they want to keep those breasts for themselves???  Just wondering...
>
>Donna Z - RN, BSN, IBCLC
>who's getting down off the box now
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:25:49 EST
>From:    "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: pumping twins mom
>
>Just when I think I've heard everything:
>
>A mom stopped by my office to explain why she has been unable to pay for the
>pump rental - she is working but her husband lost his job.  She is so happy
with
>her breastfeeding - she is nursing her twins and pumps at work (15 minute
breaks
>pumps 12 - 15 oz with the Lactina).  In fact, she explained, she has so much
>milk that her parents had to give her a freezer - and she's pumping for a sick
>baby in another hospital here.
>
>Aside from the concerns - and I explained them to her in detail - of offering
>unscreened, unpasturized milk to this baby - I was amazed as this mom was so
>very negative about breastfeeding after birth.  The girls were the usual
>reluctant nursers due to cesarean, separation, etc.  Dad was very supportive,
>but when they left the hospital I was pretty sure this was not going to be a
>long-time nursing situation.  Now the babies are 4 months old and she's feeding
>not two but three.
>
>We can never foretell what will happen at home and how things will turn out.
>
>This mom is looking great, but I did advise her to keep up her fluid intake and
>eat!  Any other suggestions?
>
>Jeanette Panchula, BA-SW, LLLL, RN, IBCLC
>Puerto Rico
>[log in to unmask]
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:25:46 EST
>From:    "Jeanette F. Panchula" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Breastfeeding Incentives
>
>I agree with Pearl that many women don't need incentives to breastfeed -
>however, here in WIC we have had a drop in moms who say they breastfeed as the
>value of the package they receive is perceived to be less than those who say
>they bottle feed.
>
>I don't really know if there has been an actual drop in the number of
>breastfeeding moms - as the definition of bf for WIC is once a day - so even
>those who SAID they were breastfeeding may not have been bf much.  But it has
>been brought to our attention many times that "they only give more peanut
butter
>(not a very Puerto Rican food), tuna (ditto), beans, carrots and milk (too
>much)."
>
>Remembering that one mom who came to see me sold the formula in her package
>(obviously stating she was NOT breastfeeding) to pay for her visit, it is clear
>that the value of the package is important.   We try to encourage and give pats
>on the back - which can be very important to anyone, especially to the  young,
>underpaid or unemployed moms.  We give them a sense of worth despite the fact
>that they don't bring $$$ in.  But  a "healthier baby" is not easily measured
>while the value of the package is.
>
>Jeanette Panchula, BA-SW, RN, LLLL, IBCLC
>Puerto Rico (70% of our moms are on WIC)
>[log in to unmask]
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:21:44 -0500
>From:    Kathleen Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Down Syndrome baby and bf
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>
>Trisha, thank you for sharing Miranda with us, and for your information on
>Down Syndrome.
>
>We are glad to have information...and I know that others also are
>appreciative of your sharing.  It is brave sharing such as you have done,
>and Kathy Dettwyler, etc..that helps all of us become much more informed and
>able to help moms we may meet.
>
>Thanks. **hugs** Kathleen
>Kathleen B. Bruce, BSN, IBCLC co-owner Lactnet,Corgi-L,TLC, Indep. Consultant
>http://together.net/~kbruce/kbbhome.html
>LACTNET Archives http://library.ummed.edu/lsv/archives/lactnet.html
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:24:00 EST
>From:    "Frances Coulter Sturgess, RD, MPH" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: brfdg stats
>
>FROM: Sturgess, Frances Coulter
>TO:[log in to unmask]
>SUBJECT: brfdg stats
>DATE: 03-04-97   19:12 EST
>PRIORITY:
>
>
>Cindy Dexter--
>
>The California breastfeeding Task Force report does go over some sources of
>national statistics, and covers our state as well.  It is supposed to go on
>the Calif State Dept of Health Services Web page but who knows when.
>In the meantime, copies can be ordered from Lori Henkins, WIC Warehouse, DHS,
>3901 Lennane Dr Sacramento CA 95834
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:02:17 -0500
>From:    Suzanne Shabdue <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Hospital Security
>
>Dear LacNetters-
>
>I think Chris originated this topic a couple posts back when she discussed
>DNA testing of babies for security purposes.  (?)  I 've since read several
>posts where LacNetters have described security procedures at their maternity
>wards.  One issue I haven't seen discussed is baby-napping or security in
>Birthing Centers.  I'm interested to know if security is an issue at these
>Centers.
>
>I only have my personal experience to base my opinion, but I assume most
>Birth Centers have the following qualities:  fewer visitors (if any), the
>baby is always in the same room with mom, small medical staff, less time
>spent at the Center after birth, etc.  Do you see where I'm headed?  At a
>Birth Center you know all the attending staff b/c there are so few of them,
>so a stranger stands out immediately.  Less time spent away from home, means
>less chance of a baby -napping occuring.
>
>  I know the Birth Centers are not for everyone, but they provide a wonderful
>atmosphere for prenatal care and delivery.  If anyone is interested, let us
>know the  security procedures in Birthing Centers and if baby-napping is a
>concern.  I'm a strong believer that healthy, low-risk women should be
>referred to these Centers for prenatal care and delivery.  Now I've hopefully
>got one more reason why clients/friends should seek out their help.
>
>Suzanne Shabdue, RD,LDN
>Breastpump Rental Station
>Delivered @ Carolina Birthing Center, High Point, NC  on 3-4-96 a healthy,
>8.14# boy
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 13:05:56 -0500
>From:    The Shillings <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: cranial manipulations
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>
>I am new to Lactnet and this is my first post.  I met lots of you at the
>Lactnet lunch in Nashville.  It's so nice to see faces as I write this.
>
>I am interested in knowing how many LCs are working with DOs with babies
>who have unresolvable problems.  At a recent Ohio LCA meeting a NICU nurse
>described referring babies with unorganized sucks to a trained DO for
>cranial manipulations.  Upon my return to WV, I met with a DO and quickly
>made my first referral of a friend with a  5 week old who was acting quite
>colicky and nursing frequently.  Vegetarian mom had successfully nursed two
>kids but now was worried why this time was not going as well.  On her own
>she had stopped eating dairy, beans, etc.  with no change.  Baby has club
>feet and is casted.  Mom also observed baby's head was not completely
>symetrical.  She noticed that he never turned his head to his left side
>when laying on his back.
>
>DO explained that the heavy casts could be affecting the neurological
>balance.
>
>It's been five days since the treatment, which was more like a massage
>pressure than a chiropractic manipulation you may be familiar with. The
>baby is much more content and turns his head to the left side on his own.
>Mom is back to normal diet.  Baby is no longer fussing excessively.
>
>Is this is old topic for Lactnetters?  I'll check the archives once I
>figure out how.  But I would love to be in contact with other LCs to
>further examine this.  When you think about the trauma that babies go
>through with vacuums, forceps and when there is shoulder dystocia.  Egads.
>
>Thanks and this wasn't so hard to do.
>
>Teri Shilling, MS, FACCE, IBCLC
>[log in to unmask]
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:51:00 EST
>From:    "Frances Coulter Sturgess, RD, MPH" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: so many oz pumped/served/Pearl
>
>FROM: Sturgess, Frances Coulter
>TO:[log in to unmask]
>SUBJECT: so many oz pumped/served/Pearl
>DATE: 03-04-97   19:38 EST
>PRIORITY:
>
>
>How about a little graphic of a smiling baby--one for each ounce? or 10
>ounces? or a baby on a scale with an ounces reading/needle reading how
>much?Actually the dyad *is* a nice idea, particularly if you can do one
>showing the baby smiling/happy at the breast (the eyes smile even if the mouth
>is full)
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:19:19 -0800
>From:    "Donna Zitzelberger BSN, CLE" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Insufficient Glandular Tissue
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>
>Last summer I had a discussion about this with Chele Marmet.  If I remember
>correctly, she had said tubular looking breasts are often judged as
>insufficient glandular tissue.  She said the key physical appearance is wide
>set breasts that are markedly different in size.  The breasts are wide set
>because most of the breast tissue is in the distal portions towards the arm
>and very little is in the medial portion.  Her book, LACTATION FORMS, has a
>picture.  In addition, the book states, the breasts do not grow during
>pregnancy nor does the mother experience engorgement post partum.
>
>Donna Zitzelberger RN BSN IBCLC
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:55:00 EST
>From:    "Frances Coulter Sturgess, RD, MPH" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: GOne With the Wind
>
>FROM: Sturgess, Frances Coulter
>TO:[log in to unmask]
>SUBJECT: GOne With the Wind
>DATE: 03-04-97   19:42 EST
>PRIORITY:
>
>
>Well of course, poor little frail ladylike Melanie would not be able to
>nurse/produce enough for her infant--Scarlett, on the other hand, probably
>would have, though I'v no clue if she did.
>
>IMHO---WHat she probably *really* saw was a nursing mother burned out of her
>home, but the author and the producers of the movie would never haave put that
>into the book/movie so they made it a cow.  And yes, I bet kids did get cows
>milk and probably died.;'<
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:06:11 -0500
>From:    Jack Newman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Sheila Innis
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>
>Dr. Innis gets funding and support from formula companies.  I don't
>suppose that was brought out in the article.
>
>What she is quoted as saying in the article is technically correct,
>however.  Women who breastfeed tend to be more educated that those that
>don't, at least in western societies.  Nevertheless, there are
>theoretical reasons for believing that breastfed babies have an
>advantage.  The point is not whether or not there is proof breastfeeding
>makes you smarter.  The point is that there is no proof that formula fed
>babies, being fed a ver different product, are as smart as breastfed
>babies.  Until that proof comes forward, and the Sheila Innis' of the
>world criticize the studies in the same way as they criticize the
>breastfeeding advantage studies, we should be very careful about telling
>mothers that it does not matter if they breastfeed or not.
>
>The formula companies seem to be getting out their big guns these
>days--calling in their iou's and all that.  What's up?
>
>Jack Newman, MD, FRCPC
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:11:27 -0800
>From:    ANN G CAGIGAS <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Surgeon General
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>
>I think that Frank's advise is sound.  We need to look at all the
>issues and concerns that a person in this position will support, not just
>take a narrow view.  And you know that I think BF is truely important but
>I remember how frustrating it was to get Dr. Novello to discuss let alone
>support BF when she had other concerns and beliefs that she felt were
>more important.   TIA, Ann
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:53:33 PST
>From:    "Barbara Leshin-Zucker, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Downs Syndrome babies & A&D
>
> Although I don't have tons of experience with Downs babies, I have had 3
cases over the years and the only common thread is that they all had very
tight sucks.  They all clenched their jaws while nursing.  Mom's reported
that the baby was "biting".  Two of the three were not aware that the babies
had Downs Syndrome at the time.  We used massage of the jawline, warm
compresses and gentle talk while nursing to get them to  relax enough to
nurse. Interestingly, most of what I've read talks about hypotonic Downs
Babies, while I would classify all three of these babies as hypertonic.
>
> I know that this is premature because the case in question is probably not
going to be in this category, but the post stimulated my thought processes.
>
> When my 21 year old daughter was born the hospital gave me A&D for sore
nipples.  It said right on the tube "for external use only" so I used it as
a diaper ointment for her.  One would think we would have learned something
new in 21 years!!  I keep these things in mind when mentioning any products
I might recommend.  I say something like "We think that XYZ is a good
product to try for this right now.  In 5 years there may be something new,
but this is what we are recommending today."  This way when she comes back
to me in 6 years with her 3rd baby, I don't feel TOO dumb!  I've been in
this business a LONG time and have seen LOTS of trends!
>
> Barbara Leshin-Zucker, IBCLC
> Highland Mills, NY
>
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:01:07 PST
>From:    "Barbara Leshin-Zucker, IBCLC" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: WIC Incentives
>
>I work for a WIC program in the Bronx, NY.  I have only been with this
agency for a couple of months, but was with another program for 5 years.
This program has lots of "stuff" that promotes breastfeeding: Pens, bibs,
pencils, magnets, etc.  Everything that the client sees says something good
about breastfeeding.  I think that it goes a long way to promote
breastfeeding as the feeding method of choice.  No, I don't think that
incentives necessarily get women to nurse longer or more often.  But I do
think that it reiterates the importance of the decision and reminds her of
it every time she writes, looks at her refridgerator, spoon feeds her baby, etc.
>
>I think visiblity is the key here.  Remember how the "competition" does it.
(Oh, if I were rich instead of beautiful................)
>
>Barbara Leshin-Zucker, IBCLC
>Highland Mills, NY
>Morrisania WIC-Breastfeeding Coordinator
>Date:    Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:15:20 -0600
>From:    Patricia Gima <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: cranial manipulations
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>
>Terri, thanks for your account of cranio sacral manipulation.  There are
>several posts on this topic in the Archives.  Reading them encouraged me to
>refer three infants for this treatment--one to a DO and two to OTs with
>training in C/S for infants.  And like your client's experience, there was
>amazing improvement in all three babies.
>
>I actually referred a fourth baby, but the mom chose to not get the
>treatment and soon thereafter weaned because of unresolved sore nipples and
>colic.
>
>This is a very gentle treatment, as is explained in one of the Archives
>posts. I'm glad to have discovered it and glad that it is growing in exposure.
>
>The Archives are such a rich resource.  If you want help getting started,
>Email me privately and I will lay out the easy instructions.
>
>Patricia Gima, IBCLC
>Milwaukee
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>