I agree about this. Psychological experiments have shown also that a vicarious experience can be interpreted and stored in the same area of the memory has actual experience. Why do you think live action video games and 3-d movies are so popular? They stimulate similar reactions to actual experience. We can go quite deeply into this discussion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lactation Information and Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sharon Knorr
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Joan Wolf Comments
Hi Margaret,
The problem is that when someone is very disappointed or upset about something, they tend to talk about it over and over and the feelings, rather than being diminished, become stronger over time. Also, the memory of what actually happened and what was said fades, but the feelings remain and whenever the situation comes up in conversation, anger resurfaces. You see it frequently in birth situations gone wrong. It also happens all the time in situations unrelated to breastfeeding, where a person cannot let go of those feelings or resolve disappointment. Also, I think that there are volunteer counselors who really don't have a depth of knowledge necessary to help in abnormal situations. When a mother is told to just relax and nurse the baby and everything will be ok, that is just infuriating to her and to her partner who is also affected by the situation.
And there have been peer situations, I think much more so many years ago, where it was made clear that anyone who was not completely on board with the whole homebirth, breastfeeding, organic only lifestyle (and I experienced that myself) was really not entirely welcomed into the fold. I think that is changing, thank goodness, but again, memories linger and those feelings of being judged, especially on your mothering decisions, are never forgotten.
Hence the LLL comments. As unfair as many of the comments may be - based on misplaced anger and unclear memories- the fact is that some moms did have a very bad experience with LLL and unfortunately, they never seem to tire of talking about it or painting the entire organization with the same brush.
It is frustrating.
I have to say that as much as I admire Ms.Dettwyler and her body of work, I did find her statement to be really offputting. Many women who have gone on to breastfeed their children did not have that as a real consideration when they first became pregnant or considered pregnancy. I have seen moms who were sure they wanted to bottlefeed become ardent breastfeeders after their babies were born. Statements like that just reinforce the idea that we in the lactation field have a completely rigid approach to how we think mothers should approach decisions related to infant feeding.
My vision is a day when breastfeeding truly is considered the cultural as well as the biological norm and we can erase these barriers that exist between women as they consider and discuss breastfeeding. We have been outgunned by the formula companies for so many years. But I do see glimmers of hope that things can change.
Sharon Knorr, IBCLC
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Margaret G. Bickmore < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I read the comments too (I should know better, sigh) and commented to
> my husband that I had no idea where people were encountering these
> anti-formula and mean LLL Leaders. I've been widely involved in LLL
> for more than a decade and I have NEVER known of a situation where a
> Leader was unsupportive of a mother who was using formula, or
> advocated for only breastfeeding when the baby or the bfdg was
> questionable.
>
> I HAVE supported many mothers using formula for many reasons. I HAVE
> had mothers continue to come to the group I lead with even after their
> babies were weaned, because they enjoyed it so much. I HAVE had
> mothers of nearly-exclusively formula-fed infants become regular
> attendees. Clearly they felt accepted and not judged.
>
> I bend over backwards to make sure that all women *interested* in
> breastfeeding are warmly welcomed. They do not have to *actually* be
> breastfeeding -- just interested!
>
> And I know that LLLLs everywhere share this approach because this is
> what we sign up for and how we are trained.
>
> This is not to say there aren't rogue LLLLs out there -- there surely are.
> But it's hard to read comments like the ones on this article where bad
> stories crop up again and again, and believe that they're for real. I
> think there must be a lot of urban legend in this. How do you combat
> an urban legend?
>
> Margaret
> who *has* been on earth as long as Pat has been a Leader -- but barely!
> LLLL, IBCLC
> Longmont, CO
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:14 AM, Pat Young <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I read thru the comments and was appalled at how LLLLeaders come across.
> > Scarey, really. I don't know or have ever known about any Leaders
> > like that. Is it the mom's emotional state when BF fails and she
> > has to blame someone? So sad. I have personally walked into
> > kitchens and made
> bottles
> > for babies who need to be fed NOW.
> > Maybe we need to spread the message about 1. Feed the baby, 2.
> > Preserve
> the
> > milk supply, 3. Get help more broadly thru LLL. Pat (who has been a
> leader
> > longer than most of you have been on earth :-) 1967!
> >
> >
>
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