Thank you Jeff.

Mary Anne Davis
Associate State Archaeologist
Idaho State Historical Society
210 Main St.
Boise, Idaho 83702
208.334.3847 ext. 111
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>^..^< 

The Idaho State Historical Society is an extraordinary system of cultural and historic resources comprised of the Idaho State Historical Museum, State Archives, State Historic Preservation Office, and Historic Sites Program.  We seek to inspire, enrich and engage all Idahoans by leading the state in preserving, sharing, and using history and cultural resources relevant to today to inform and influence the future. Join us!


-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Boyer, Jeffrey, DCA
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ACHP and Appointment of Dr. Lynne Sebastian

Because this is also a forum for sound discussions of matters historical and historical-archaeological, I will refrain from leaving it. At the same time I sympathize with those who have asked to be unsubscribed of late.
Colleagues, Lynne is now a member of the ACHP, like it or not. Tom King had the professional decency to present his thoughts on the matter, thoughts about which he was expectably both thorough and blunt, on his own blog. Unfortunately, several of us have not followed his example and, instead, have elected to present themselves and their opinions in their worst lights (or what one would hope are their worst lights). 
Archaeologists, as we and our significant others all know, are a cantankerous and provocateur-ish lot. If there isn't a squawk already in action, we'll often see what we can do to start one, as if archaeology itself isn't entertaining enough.
That said, colleagues, kindly STOP venting at each other about Lynne's appointment in this forum. You've offended each other, you might have offended Lynne (although she has a pretty thick hide), and you are getting pretty close to kicking too many horses in the same small corral. If you feel you MUST continue to piddle on each other's tree (mixing animal metaphors here), kindly do so off list. Speaking only for me, of course . . .


Jeff

Jeffrey L. Boyer, RPA
Supervisory Archaeologist/Project Director Office of Archaeological Studies, Museum of New Mexico

  *   The Center for New Mexico Archaeology
  *   7 Old Cochiti Road
  *   Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
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"There comes a time in every rightly-constructed boy's life when he has a raging desire to go somewhere and dig for hidden treasure."  -- Mark Twain, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer


________________________________________
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Fred McGhee [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 3:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ACHP and Appointment of Dr. Lynne Sebastian

"neither you nor I have even the vaguest idea what that was."

I realize that this listserv is not a court of law, but the question I ask is not difficult and it is the thrust behind King's point.  Perhaps you have mastered the skill of not talking with someone and then convincing yourself down the line that you actually did (usually when it's convenient), but I have not yet mastered that aspect of the properly blinkered eye.

Before presuming to lecture me, know this:  on this subject, I know what I am talking about.  I have the battle scars to prove it.

flm

On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:29 PM, "Branstner, Mark C" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dr. McGhee,
>
> Your stated question is NOT a yes or no question -- there is nothing 
> pro forma about it -- based on the response that you presumably just 
> read from Ian.  Without knowing exactly what role Dr. Sebastian had in 
> this process, there is no way to reply to your question. There is no 
> reason to assume that she did or did not speak directly to various 
> stakeholders, nor whether there was any reason for her to have spoken 
> with them.  It is entirely dependent on what defined role she had in 
> the process, and neither you nor I have even the vaguest idea what that was.
>
> Please get off you soapbox and move on.
>
> Mark
> ___________________________________
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA
> Historical Archaeologist
>
> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> Prairie Research Institute
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 217.549.6990
> [log in to unmask]
>
> "Mongo only pawn in game of life."  Mongo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/4/13 3:57 PM, "Fred McGhee" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> This response to the article and the blog is appreciated, but it 
>> seems to me that it still skirts the main point of King's critique.
>>
>> Did Dr. Sebastian actually speak with any American Indians before 
>> making the professional recommendations that she did?  Stated more 
>> broadly, did she take the time to talk with people who were not 
>> paying her money and who might have a different point of view than 
>> her client(s)?  This is a simple yes or no question.  If the answer 
>> is no, the next question is pro
>> forma:  why not?
>>
>> There's no need to regurgitate discussion of how Section 106 and 
>> NAGPRA are supposed to be about "balance."  Native Americans and 
>> African Americans have heard that song and dance routine many times 
>> before.  The scale is far from balanced.
>>
>> flm
>>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2013, at 2:51 PM, ian Burrow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> This is information addressing the specifics of the matters raised 
>>> by Dr Tom King and the Indian County Today article.  It was provided 
>>> to me by Terry Klein of the SRI Foundation and is used with his 
>>> permission.  I post it in order that readers can see both sides of 
>>> the particular matters raised by those parties and judge for 
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>> "Dr. Lynne Sebastian cannot respond to the material on Dr. Tom 
>>> King's blog because it is his rebuttal testimony in an alternative 
>>> energy licensing case that is currently in the process of being 
>>> heard before the California Energy Commission.  As an expert witness 
>>> in this matter, it is inappropriate for Dr. Sebastian to discuss her 
>>> testimony in the case before the hearings are completed and the 
>>> Commission has made its decision.
>>>
>>> As for the Indian Country Today article, it references two cases in 
>>> which Dr. King and Dr. Sebastian served as expert witnesses for 
>>> different parties.
>>> The first case, a proposed mine near Yuma, Arizona, was a federal 
>>> undertaking; the second case, a proposed gravel quarry, was a county 
>>> permitting hearing in Riverside County, California.  In both cases,
>>> government- to-government tribal consultation (for the federal
>>> undertaking)
>>> and opportunities for tribal input, testimony, and submission of 
>>> written materials (the local government proceedings) had already 
>>> taken place before Dr. Sebastian became involved.
>>> In both cases, Dr. Sebastian was asked to review the administrative 
>>> record, including the information provided by the tribes, and offer 
>>> opinions about procedural questions having to do with compliance 
>>> with Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act in the 
>>> federal case, and about National Register of Historic Places 
>>> requirements in the local government case.
>>> In
>>> neither case did Dr. Sebastian offer opinions on the cultural value 
>>> of sacred places or tribal history or religious beliefs.
>>>
>>> Section 106 is about balancing preservation and development.  Many 
>>> different parties have the right to participate in Section 106 
>>> consultations and to have their views heard and considered.  No one 
>>> party should be allowed to prevent the views of another party from 
>>> being heard and considered under the Section 106 process."
>>>
>>> Ian Burrow