Thank you for the replies ... I KNOW that the Spanish word "carrizo" exists in numerous placenames across the whole southwest, but what I'm asking is when the Spanish were looking at & naming things "carrizo" was it the phragmites australis reed, specifically, that they were referring to in SoCal ... or could it have been some other (simiar ?) reed?

Bob Skiles
~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, reason has been a part of organized religion, ever since two nudists took dietary advice from a talking snake. -- Jon Stewart 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerald Carbiener" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: carrizo = phragmites in SoCal?


> 
> And the Carrizo  Plain in San Luis Obispo County.
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/10/2006 7:07:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> 
> Yes  Virginia, uh, I mean Bob...such reeds are known to have grown...and
> still  are growing (I presume) in S.  CA.
> http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-taxon=Phragmites
> %20australis&ttime=1160531280
> 
> There's  a Carrizo Gorge, Carrizob Badlands, Carrizo Creek (& Valley),
> etc. in  San Diego/Imperial counties.
> 
> (apparently Carrizozo, NM got its name for  the abundance of such reeds
> in that area) 
> 
>>-----Original  Message-----
>>From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On  
>>Behalf Of Bob Skiles
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 4:17  PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: carrizo = phragmites in  SoCal?
>>
>>... the term "carrizo" in the quotation below (and as  used by 
>>the Spanish chroniclers in western Texas) referred to the  
>>phragmites australis reed ... 
>>
>>i've seen the word  "carrizo" used by early Spanish chroniclers 
>>referring to source  material for the cane arrows made by the 
>>Indians in the area of the  southern California missions, too, 
>>which clearly (by contextual  descriptions of the arrows) 
>>refers to some type of cane or reed, but  I'm not sure it 
>>referred to phragmites ... did phragmites australis  (or 
>>communis) grow along streams in southern  California?
>>
>>Bob Skiles
>>
>>
>>> In James L.  Haley's <italic>Apaches: A History and Culture Portrait 
>>>  (</italic>University of Oklahoma Press, 1997), the author says the  
>>> Apache of New Mexico and west Texas made two kinds of  
>>arrows, hardwood or cane.
>>> Hardwoods were "preferably  mountain mahogany, Apache plume, or 
>>> mulberry, and some  Chiricahuas became known for arrows of 
>>desert broom 
>>>  (<italic>Baccharis sarothroides</italic>)." (p. 109)  Cane  
>>arrows were 
>>> made from carrizo, and included a hardwood  foreshaft four to six 
>>> inches  long.
>>>
>>
>>
>>~~~
>>"Smithers! Get that  bedlamite to an alienist." ~ C. Monty Burns
>>
> 
> 
> 
>