The mystery object is most definitely a gas stove part. It may be called a "star" burner. See: http://www.pronto.com/mpm/preAnnotatedSearch.do?annotatedQuery=_CM_cast_iron+_HN_burners&displayQuery=cast+iron+burners&classifierLabels=hg_appliances&ref=cast+iron+burners&site=&creativeid=475939709&SEM=true&adid=s10-161-7196-0_gs&loadingComplete=true
James J. D’Angelo, RPA, Ph.D.
Archaeologist
TRC
4155 Shackleford Road Suite 225
Norcross, Georgia, 30093
770.270.1192 x125 phone
770.270.1392 fax
404.580.2079 cell
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of HISTARCH automatic digest system
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:01 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: HISTARCH Digest - 21 Jan 2008 to 22 Jan 2008 (#2008-20)
There are 16 messages totalling 1203 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The perplexing artifact (11)
2. manganese clarified glass date (3)
3. Pacental pots
4. manganese clarified glass date - Hist. Arch. article
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:46:36 -0700
From: "Sarah A. Molik" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The perplexing artifact
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that was
found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had suggestions of
everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters wide, and
3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the main pole,
and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other side
has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to pictures
below.
If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact, I'd be most
greatful.
Thanks!
Sincerey,
Sarah
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:06:32 +0100
From: geoff carver <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Looks like a gas burner from a stove
-----Original Message-----
I've had suggestions of
everything from an old gas burner from a stove
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:08:56 -0800
From: David Hayes <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
I have seen these in commercial gas ranges. A visit to a local restaurant stove supply house should answer your question and might even tell you the maker from the casting marks. Gas enters from right and tab at other end is a support.
David Hayes R.P.A.
Virgin Islands
"Sarah A. Molik" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that was
found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had suggestions of
everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters wide, and
3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the main pole,
and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other side
has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to pictures
below.
If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact, I'd be most
greatful.
Thanks!
Sincerey,
Sarah
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:14:04 -0600
From: Mark Branstner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Sarah,
Sure looks like a cast-iron gas stove or water heater burner to me.
Mark
--
Mark C. Branstner, RPA
Historic Archaeologist
Illinois Transportation
Archaeological Research Program
209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
23 East Stadium Drive
Champaign, IL 61820
Phone: 217.244.0892
Fax: 217.244.7458
Cell: 517.927.4556
[log in to unmask]
"I hope there's pudding" - Luna Lovegood (HP5)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:17:39 -0600
From: Mark Branstner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Sarah,
Check this out, the Andes range:
http://www.goodtimestove.com/special_sections/139.html
--
Mark C. Branstner, RPA
Historic Archaeologist
Illinois Transportation
Archaeological Research Program
209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
23 East Stadium Drive
Champaign, IL 61820
Phone: 217.244.0892
Fax: 217.244.7458
Cell: 517.927.4556
[log in to unmask]
"I hope there's pudding" - Luna Lovegood (HP5)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:24:53 -0500
From: "Riordan, Timothy B" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Hi,
The "Andes Range" was a series of elaborate stoves made by the Phillips
& Clark Stove Co., of Geneva, NY. Their trade cards often show up on
ebay.
Best,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Sarah A. Molik
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The perplexing artifact
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that
was
found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had
suggestions of
everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters
wide, and
3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the
main pole,
and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other
side
has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to
pictures
below.
If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact,
I'd be most
greatful.
Thanks!
Sincerey,
Sarah
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:42:37 -0500
From: "Cranmer, Leon" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Sarah,
Just sold a c. 1920s "Glenwwood" wood burning stove with a gas "sidecar"
containing three gas burners. The gas burners are almost identical to
your example. If you were in Maine I could tell you where to go to see
reconditioned examples - still being sold.
Lee Cranmer
Historical Archaeologist
Maine Historic Preservation Commission
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Sarah A. Molik
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The perplexing artifact
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that
was found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had
suggestions of everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac
tor part to an elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13
centimeters wide, and
3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the
main pole, and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes.
the other side has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've
listed links to pictures below.
If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact,
I'd be most greatful.
Thanks!
Sincerey,
Sarah
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:17:03 -0600
From: Bob Skiles <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Sarah,
It's a gas burner perhaps from an "Andes Ranger" model range manufactured by
the "Andes Range and Furnace Company" of Geneva, New York (or one of their
furnaces, as it appears a bit large for a range). The "Andes" brand earlier
belonged to the Phillips & Clark Stove Company of Troy, NY, which moved to
Geneva in 1885, and changed the company name to "Andes Range and Furnace
Company" in 1924. There is a brief company history and photos here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=GCb90El9tuUC&pg=PA44&dq=Andes+Range+%26+Furnace+Company&sig=e_t4csLgZZqn3fN3CLJodmQ2ktg#PPA44,M1
You can view a very similar Andes burner in this patent drawing from a 1931
patent application:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=euZ4AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA10&dq=%22gas+range%22+andes
Bob Skiles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth,
without either virtue or talents ... The artificial aristocracy is a
mischievous ingredient in government, and provisions should be made to
prevent its ascendancy."
- Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah A. Molik" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:46 PM
Subject: The perplexing artifact
>I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that
>was
> found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had
> suggestions of
> everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
> elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters wide,
> and
> 3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the main
> pole,
> and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other side
> has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to
> pictures
> below.
>
> If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact, I'd
> be most
> greatful.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sincerey,
>
> Sarah
>
> http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
>
> http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:22:31 -0500
From: "Efstathios I. Pappas" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Looking at the second picture I am going to second the interpretation that it is a natural gas or propane burner of some sort.? I have seen similar shaped burners for early hot water heaters.? The big end is where the "carburetor' section would have attached to the cast iron burner.? This would consist of an orifice with an adjustable opening to draw in air to mix the raw gas with oxygen so that the flame out of the burner holes would be efficient.? Think of a Bunsen burner from chemistry 101.? I hope this helps.?
Best,
Stathi
___________________________________________________________________
Efstathios I. Pappas
Doctoral Candidate
Department of Anthropology/096
University of Nevada, Reno
Reno, NV 89557
209 603 7363
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah A. Molik <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:46 am
Subject: The perplexing artifact
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that was
found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had suggestions of
everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters wide, and
3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the main pole,
and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other side
has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to pictures
below.
If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular artifact, I'd be
most
greatful.
Thanks!
Sincerey,
Sarah
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:31:29 -0600
From: David Parkhill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Yep! That's a gas burner. Made of cast iron. The end opposite the
burner has an opening for the gas nipple to fit in it from the main
gas source. Length of the arm determines whether it is a front or
back burner for a gas cooking stove. Could also be used for water
heaters or other gas appliances where heat is required.
At 01:46 PM 1/22/2008, you wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone could help me. I have a strange artifact that was
>found, and am totally stumped as to what it could be. I've had
>suggestions of
>everything from an old gas burner from a stove to a trac tor part to an
>elevation marker. The object is 29 centimeters long, 13 centimeters
>wide, and
>3 1/2 centimeters in thickness. It has six spokes coming out of the
>main pole,
>and machine-made holes 1 centimeter apart in said spokes. the other side
>has "ANDES B12 BE 3023" embossed on the back. I've listed links to pictures
>below.
>
>If anyone has any insight to the identity of this particular
>artifact, I'd be most
>greatful.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Sincerey,
>
>Sarah
>
>http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1360.jpg
>
>http://curtinarchaeology.com/HPIM1361.jpg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0700
From: MORGAN A RIEDER <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
You need to take into consideration the fact that most of the manganese =
sources in Russia (which, in turn, were exported to the U.S.) were =
controlled by German mining corporations. After the German ambassador =
delivered the declaration of war to the Tsar in August 1914, the mines =
were expropriated (in effect, shut down). But using 1914 as the cut-off =
doesn't work, because U.S. glass manufacturers (1) had stockpiles of =
manganese, and( 2) were already in the process of replacing manganese =
with selenium. I will refrain from commenting on current issues that =
are related to this thread, although I can't help but note that the =
entry of the U.S. into the European war was dictated by U.S. munitions =
manufacturers. Original Message -----=20
From: Vergil E. Noble<mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
The Parks Canada Glass Glossary (1985) by Olive Jones and Catherine
Sullivan (and others), page 13, says "This type of glass (solarized) =
was
most common from the last quarter of the 19th century until World War =
I,
but it does occur earlier, especially in 18th century French crizzled
glasses."
I suspect that common use of the specific year "1917" may owe to an
American perspective on the general temporal landmark of WW I, since =
the US
entered into that three-year-old war on April 6 of that year. If one
assumes that the war disrupted supplies of manganese, I suppose that =
the
effect could have been felt in some places as early as the latter part =
of
1914.
=
=20
Michael Pfeiffer =
=20
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> =
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> =
=20
.US> cc: (bcc: Vergil =
Noble/MWAC/NPS) =20
Sent by: Subject: Re: manganese =
clarified glass date =20
HISTORICAL =
=20
ARCHAEOLOGY =
=20
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> =
=20
> =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
09/22/04 12:36 PM =
=20
EST =
=20
Please respond to =
=20
HISTORICAL =
=20
ARCHAEOLOGY =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
"1915 - Glass formulas delete manganese". In: Some Common Artifact =
Found
at Historical Sites. Cultural Resources Report No.31, USDA Forest =
Service,
Southwestern Region, Albuqueque, N.M., February 1980 by David Gillio,
Francis Levine, and Douglas Scott. page 17
"Manganese was used in bottle glass up to about 1917 in order to give =
the
glass a clearer effect. After this date, ultra-violet rays of the sun
would not turn glass "purple", a change caused by the manganese =
content of
the glass."
IMACS users Guide, April 1984, section 472. This is the guide to =
filling
out site forms for computer entry back then. It was developed in =
Region 4
(Utah, Nevada, and southern 2/3 of Idaho). I used it in 1983 and 1984
while working for the BLM in Salmomn, Idaho.
I don't have the orginal sources.
:-(
Smoke (Michael A.) Pfeiffer, RPA
Ozark-St. Francis National Forests
605 West Main Street
Russellville, Arkansas 72801
(479) 968-2354 Ext. 233
e-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.
Cathy Spude
<Cathy_Spude@NPS<mailto:Cathy_Spude@NPS>.
GOV> =
To
Sent by: =
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
HISTORICAL =
cc
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> =
Subject
> manganese clarified glass date
09/22/2004 11:13
AM
Please respond to
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
HISTARCHers:
I'm looking for a citation for the end date of the use of manganese to
clarify glass in the United States. Dale Berge in his still relevant =
report
on the Simpson's Springs excavations in Utah tells us it was 1917, =
based on
a collector's book (Ferraro and Ferraro 1964). I have "known" for some
years now that the United States stopped importing manganese from =
Germany
as early as 1915 and that is a better end date for glass that =
solarizes
purple. I've used that date for some time now, but a reviewer on one =
of my
reports wants a citation (*&#!*#!!!). I've gone through all my =
standard
references and can't find anyone else who will back me up.
Anyone who can help?
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude =C2=A8 Archeologist =C2=A8 Cultural Resources =
Management =C2=A8
National Park Service =E2=80=93 Intermountain Region =C2=A8 =
505.988.6831Voice =C2=A8
505.988.6876 Fax
The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the =
American
people so that all may experience our heritage.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:50:17 -0600
From: Mark Branstner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The perplexing artifact
Hi all,
Just a random thought ...
Having grown up in the 1950s and early 1960s, either in a small
northern Michigan town or visiting my grandparents in the country, I
have been exposed to material culture and lifeways that certainly
extend well back into the latter half the 19th century ... The poor
kids had outhouses, still trapped for spending money, and horses were
still seen in at least limited use on local farms.
There was certain continuity between the past and the present that
was predictable and understandable.
On the other hand, some of the younger members of our fraternity, who
were born roughly coincident with the arrival of the personal
computer, are at a total disconnect with much of the material culture
that many of us take for granted ... Although at 56, I really don't
feel like an "old timer," the increasingly rapid disconnect between
the past and the present is, at best, disconcerting.
So, when one of our younger number presents what to them is a
"perplexing artifact," I promise to check my initial reaction (shock,
smugness) and do my best to responsibly reply with the "vast" store
of knowledge that I apparently retain in my short-term memory :-) ,
when appropriate.
Geezerly yours,
Mark
--
Mark C. Branstner, RPA
Historic Archaeologist
Illinois Transportation
Archaeological Research Program
209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
23 East Stadium Drive
Champaign, IL 61820
Phone: 217.244.0892
Fax: 217.244.7458
Cell: 517.927.4556
[log in to unmask]
"I hope there's pudding" - Luna Lovegood (HP5)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:00:34 -0500
From: "Jennifer M. Faberson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
Cathy-
Please see:
Lockhart, Bill
2006 The Color Purple: Dating Solarized Amethyst Container Glass. Historical
Archaeology 40(2):45–56.
He suggests that the end date is more like 1920, and breaks it down based on
vessel type. Hope this helps!
Jennifer Faberson
Historic Materials Specialist
Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc.
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of MORGAN A
RIEDER
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
You need to take into consideration the fact that most of the manganese
sources in Russia (which, in turn, were exported to the U.S.) were
controlled by German mining corporations. After the German ambassador
delivered the declaration of war to the Tsar in August 1914, the mines were
expropriated (in effect, shut down). But using 1914 as the cut-off doesn't
work, because U.S. glass manufacturers (1) had stockpiles of manganese, and(
2) were already in the process of replacing manganese with selenium. I will
refrain from commenting on current issues that are related to this thread,
although I can't help but note that the entry of the U.S. into the European
war was dictated by U.S. munitions manufacturers. Original Message -----
From: Vergil E. Noble<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
The Parks Canada Glass Glossary (1985) by Olive Jones and Catherine
Sullivan (and others), page 13, says "This type of glass (solarized) was
most common from the last quarter of the 19th century until World War I,
but it does occur earlier, especially in 18th century French crizzled
glasses."
I suspect that common use of the specific year "1917" may owe to an
American perspective on the general temporal landmark of WW I, since the
US
entered into that three-year-old war on April 6 of that year. If one
assumes that the war disrupted supplies of manganese, I suppose that the
effect could have been felt in some places as early as the latter part of
1914.
Michael Pfeiffer
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
.US> cc: (bcc: Vergil
Noble/MWAC/NPS)
Sent by: Subject: Re: manganese
clarified glass date
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
09/22/04 12:36 PM
EST
Please respond to
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
"1915 - Glass formulas delete manganese". In: Some Common Artifact Found
at Historical Sites. Cultural Resources Report No.31, USDA Forest
Service,
Southwestern Region, Albuqueque, N.M., February 1980 by David Gillio,
Francis Levine, and Douglas Scott. page 17
"Manganese was used in bottle glass up to about 1917 in order to give the
glass a clearer effect. After this date, ultra-violet rays of the sun
would not turn glass "purple", a change caused by the manganese content of
the glass."
IMACS users Guide, April 1984, section 472. This is the guide to filling
out site forms for computer entry back then. It was developed in Region 4
(Utah, Nevada, and southern 2/3 of Idaho). I used it in 1983 and 1984
while working for the BLM in Salmomn, Idaho.
I don't have the orginal sources.
:-(
Smoke (Michael A.) Pfeiffer, RPA
Ozark-St. Francis National Forests
605 West Main Street
Russellville, Arkansas 72801
(479) 968-2354 Ext. 233
e-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.
Cathy Spude
<Cathy_Spude@NPS<mailto:Cathy_Spude@NPS>.
GOV> To
Sent by:
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
HISTORICAL cc
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject
> manganese clarified glass date
09/22/2004 11:13
AM
Please respond to
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
HISTARCHers:
I'm looking for a citation for the end date of the use of manganese to
clarify glass in the United States. Dale Berge in his still relevant
report
on the Simpson's Springs excavations in Utah tells us it was 1917, based
on
a collector's book (Ferraro and Ferraro 1964). I have "known" for some
years now that the United States stopped importing manganese from Germany
as early as 1915 and that is a better end date for glass that solarizes
purple. I've used that date for some time now, but a reviewer on one of my
reports wants a citation (*&#!*#!!!). I've gone through all my standard
references and can't find anyone else who will back me up.
Anyone who can help?
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude ¨ Archeologist ¨ Cultural Resources Management ¨
National Park Service – Intermountain Region ¨ 505.988.6831Voice ¨
505.988.6876 Fax
The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the American
people so that all may experience our heritage.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:47:32 +0000
From: "paul.courtney2" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pacental pots
Does anyone (Geoff C?) have any references to the post-medieval
placental pots excavated from town cellars in SW Germany and used for
burying human placentas (other than the piece in Archaeology
magazine1991). I am happy to chase up refs in German.
paul
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:08:08 -0800
From: Carol Serr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date - Hist. Arch. article
I never got Cathy's original posting (as so often happens; I only see
the/some replies...???)...but was going to point out this recent SHA
article...as Jennifer has done.
Lockhart points out in his article, that the US didn't really depend
(only) on Germany for their manganese source...so, that wasn't really a
factor in the 'purple' glass issue. It has more to do with
progress...and the use of the automatic bottle machine (glass formula,
etc.)... see Miller & Sullivan (as cited in Lockhart's article).
:o)
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Jennifer M. Faberson
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
Cathy-
Please see:
Lockhart, Bill
2006 The Color Purple: Dating Solarized Amethyst Container Glass.
Historical
Archaeology 40(2):45-56.
He suggests that the end date is more like 1920, and breaks it down
based on
vessel type. Hope this helps!
Jennifer Faberson
Historic Materials Specialist
Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc.
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:16:56 -0700
From: "Lockhart, Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
Although World War I had some effect on the manganese supply, the major
reason for the change was that manganese did not work well in the glass
mixtures used by machines. My article that Jennifer cited covers the
subject very thoroughly.
The type of bottle, however, is vitally important. Most changes in the
glass industry can only be ACCURATELY dated by bottle type. For
example, manganese decolored soda bottles are unusual after ca. 1912;
however, drug store (pharmacy) bottles were still made that way by
Whitall Tatum (one of the largest producers) until at least 1925.
Bill Lockhart
>>> "Jennifer M. Faberson" <[log in to unmask]> 1/22/2008 2:00:34
pm >>>
Cathy-
Please see:
Lockhart, Bill
2006 The Color Purple: Dating Solarized Amethyst Container Glass.
Historical
Archaeology 40(2):45–56.
He suggests that the end date is more like 1920, and breaks it down
based on
vessel type. Hope this helps!
Jennifer Faberson
Historic Materials Specialist
Cultural Resource Analysts, Inc.
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
MORGAN A
RIEDER
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
You need to take into consideration the fact that most of the
manganese
sources in Russia (which, in turn, were exported to the U.S.) were
controlled by German mining corporations. After the German ambassador
delivered the declaration of war to the Tsar in August 1914, the mines
were
expropriated (in effect, shut down). But using 1914 as the cut-off
doesn't
work, because U.S. glass manufacturers (1) had stockpiles of manganese,
and(
2) were already in the process of replacing manganese with selenium. I
will
refrain from commenting on current issues that are related to this
thread,
although I can't help but note that the entry of the U.S. into the
European
war was dictated by U.S. munitions manufacturers. Original Message
-----
From: Vergil E. Noble<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: manganese clarified glass date
The Parks Canada Glass Glossary (1985) by Olive Jones and Catherine
Sullivan (and others), page 13, says "This type of glass (solarized)
was
most common from the last quarter of the 19th century until World War
I,
but it does occur earlier, especially in 18th century French
crizzled
glasses."
I suspect that common use of the specific year "1917" may owe to an
American perspective on the general temporal landmark of WW I, since
the
US
entered into that three-year-old war on April 6 of that year. If one
assumes that the war disrupted supplies of manganese, I suppose that
the
effect could have been felt in some places as early as the latter
part of
1914.
Michael Pfeiffer
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
.US> cc: (bcc:
Vergil
Noble/MWAC/NPS)
Sent by: Subject: Re:
manganese
clarified glass date
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
09/22/04 12:36 PM
EST
Please respond to
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
"1915 - Glass formulas delete manganese". In: Some Common Artifact
Found
at Historical Sites. Cultural Resources Report No.31, USDA Forest
Service,
Southwestern Region, Albuqueque, N.M., February 1980 by David
Gillio,
Francis Levine, and Douglas Scott. page 17
"Manganese was used in bottle glass up to about 1917 in order to give
the
glass a clearer effect. After this date, ultra-violet rays of the
sun
would not turn glass "purple", a change caused by the manganese
content of
the glass."
IMACS users Guide, April 1984, section 472. This is the guide to
filling
out site forms for computer entry back then. It was developed in
Region 4
(Utah, Nevada, and southern 2/3 of Idaho). I used it in 1983 and
1984
while working for the BLM in Salmomn, Idaho.
I don't have the orginal sources.
:-(
Smoke (Michael A.) Pfeiffer, RPA
Ozark-St. Francis National Forests
605 West Main Street
Russellville, Arkansas 72801
(479) 968-2354 Ext. 233
e-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
It is easier to get forgiveness than permission.
Cathy Spude
<Cathy_Spude@NPS<mailto:Cathy_Spude@NPS>.
GOV>
To
Sent by:
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
HISTORICAL
cc
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject
> manganese clarified glass
date
09/22/2004 11:13
AM
Please respond to
HISTORICAL
ARCHAEOLOGY
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
HISTARCHers:
I'm looking for a citation for the end date of the use of manganese
to
clarify glass in the United States. Dale Berge in his still relevant
report
on the Simpson's Springs excavations in Utah tells us it was 1917,
based
on
a collector's book (Ferraro and Ferraro 1964). I have "known" for
some
years now that the United States stopped importing manganese from
Germany
as early as 1915 and that is a better end date for glass that
solarizes
purple. I've used that date for some time now, but a reviewer on one
of my
reports wants a citation (*&#!*#!!!). I've gone through all my
standard
references and can't find anyone else who will back me up.
Anyone who can help?
Cathy
Catherine Holder Spude ̈ Archeologist ̈ Cultural Resources Management
̈
National Park Service – Intermountain Region ̈ 505.988.6831Voice ̈
505.988.6876 Fax
The National Park Service cares for special places saved by the
American
people so that all may experience our heritage.
------------------------------
End of HISTARCH Digest - 21 Jan 2008 to 22 Jan 2008 (#2008-20)
**************************************************************
|
