Jon Gallant <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Permit me to enter this thread with a suggestion.  I don't know whether
>Mahler should be viewed as "overrated" or not, but I would designate him
>(perhaps in a dead heat with Wagner) as "most overstated".  By this, I
>refer the simple ratio of what is achieved to what is employed.  Consider
>the following comparison of two works, and the means they employ.
>
>Mahler's Symphony #2: about 80 minutes, requring a large symphony
>orchestra, organ, chorus, soloists, bells, whistles, and if Mahler were
>composing today he would no doubt call in Stephen Spielberg for special
>effects.
>
>Bach's chaconne from the partita #2 in D minor: 14 minutes, one violin.

Wow!!  That sure is an interesting comparison!  I have only one response:
I have in front of me an apple and an orange, and I have concluded that
the apple is inferior because, well, it is not an orange.

Actually, I have more of a response.  Since timing is a significant part
of your analysis, shouldn't we compare the timing of the entire Partita,
as opposed to only a single movement? Based on the timing of my beloved
Milstein recording (DGG), Bach "employs" 30 minutes for the entire work.
If Bach has to spend 30 minutes on a piece for a single instrument (an
extremely long time for a solo instrumental work in Bach's day), doesn't
he start to sound "overstated" against a major orchestral/choral/vocal work
of a mere 80 minutes? And Bach's chaconne (if we're talking only single
movements) is longer than 3 of the movements in Mahler's 2d (and that's
even based on Klemperer's "less-than-speed-demon" EMI recording!).  Doesn't
that make Bach sound "overstated," especially when Mahler needs only 10 and
12 and 4 minutes for the 3 inside movements of the second symphony, and
Bach needs 15 minutes for only a single instrument in the chaconne?

Would you employ your methodology to make a similarly deprecating
comparison against Beethoven's veritably bulbous 9th symphony with over
70 minutes, large orchestra, vocal soloists, and chorus; and wouldn't
the methodology justify the same attacks on Beethoven's Missa Solemnis
or Verdi's requiem? And wouldn't Schoenberg's Gurrelieder be dead meat?

For a comparable methodology in assessing the relative significance
of artistic creations, you might want to watch Dead Poet's Society, the
wonderful movie with Robin Williams.  Watch the scene where Williams (a
literature teacher) is telling his class about the methodology of "J Evans
Pritchard" for assessing the relative merit of works of literature (poetry
to be specific).

Drew M. Capuder
Fairmont, West Virginia USA
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